cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/54245880
The U.S. war with Iran has raised fossil fuel prices so much that the resulting drop in oil demand has put the world on track to see a rare dip in carbon emissions from these sources in 2026.
Between 2019 and 2025, carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels grew by about 0.8 percent annually, according to a new study published in Nature Climate Change. But 2026 is set to buck that trend: high oil prices, as well as the continued rise of green technology—solar power, wind and electric cars—will cause a “short-term” 0.4 percent drop, according to the study.
“The high petrol prices following the war in Iran are reducing oil use and keeping emissions low,” says the study’s lead author Corinne Le Quéré, a professor of climate change science at the University of East Anglia in England. “But that’s not the whole story: The expansion of renewable energy has progressed a lot in recent years, led by China. And [along with electric vehicles], this is offsetting two thirds of the growing demand for energy.”
With all sources of carbon considered, including deforestation, total global CO2 emissions are set to continue increasing.
Don’t tease me. I once told my very conservative friend that I wanted to see the gas prices skyrocket, and he was dumbfounded at why I would want that. And my answer was exactly this, its the only reason people will stop using fossil fuels.
We’ve proven that people don’t care about climate change unless it affects them directly.
This is why no US president has fucked with Iran in a meaningful way, until Dementia Don thought he could Captain America this shit and threw the world into chaos.
It is a sad truth that, at least in the US, the majority only ever cares about war when they’re personally affected. It’s why we have a “volunteer” military, though truly, our military is loaded with poor people who had no real option in their home communities other than joining up, and also why we’re never having another draft.
Even so, it’s still glad to see the majority becoming more anti-war even if only out of self-interest.
But I was told it was Bidens Fault!
/s
And yeah it’s scary how selfish people are. I always think that people are like myself and look out for others, but no they’d fuck you over for a Klondike bar.
Thank you, Iran.
The Gang Solves Climate Change
Between covid and the Iran war, Trump is the most environmentally friendly president ever!
Task failed successfully
Only temporarily.
The only real way to fight climate change is to make fossil fuels more expensive than alternatives. The vast majority won’t do it for environmental reasons.
It’s really absurd that we are still subsidizing fossil fuels rather than increasing the tax rates on them.
well france tried that and people rioted. Trump (unintentionally) made gas prices skyrocket and just caused one of the most lopsided elections in modern US history. Asking middle and especially lower class people to pay more for energy, even just in the short term, runs the risk of turning them against eco-conscious legislation.
So I think a better strategy is just more incentives and funding for clean energy.
Trump (unintentionally) made gas prices skyrocket and just caused one of the most lopsided elections in modern US history.
To be honest, there is a massive difference between prices going up because of taxes and going up because someone started a stupid war and told everyone costs were going down.
Do you think all of the people who flipped blue really care about the war? They certainly didn’t before gas prices went up.
I said they noticed prices first and they probably wouldn’t care about the war otherwise.
I’m not sure I agree, I don’t think most people consider the causes that deeply. That’s how we ended up with trump in the first palce.
one is easily attributable to whoever introduced the legislation and the other could be anyone’s fault (who knows it could be Iran it could be Israel it could even be Pete hegseth)
It’s greedy rich people.
Asking middle and especially lower class people to pay more for energy, even just in the short term, runs the risk of turning them against eco-conscious legislation.
It’s not just about the ones that can’t afford to pay more for the energy, there also usually isn’t a viable alternative available for them to even look at moving toward instead. It’s one thing to make a decision pay more for convenience, if you have another option. If there is no other option, you just feel like you’re getting personally fucked.
In the US, all of the public transit infrastructure outside of like 4 major cities is dogshit. There may be a bus, that doesn’t go everywhere, runs at odd times, and is poorly maintained. Technically available, but if you need to travel across town to work, takes 3 hours one way to do so through 2 different transfer stations. And since everything was built around personal vehicles, things are also not within walking distance even if you are lucky enough to work from home or have something closer.
Having a car is a necessity for most of the country. Without having viable alternatives, increased fuel prices aren’t going to actually fix anything, just turn people even more against any changes.
This is why things like EVs are a good middle ground with the current lack of public infrastructure available nationwide. It’s an easy drop in replacement that’s a better ongoing option, with a side effect of also costing less to maintain along the way.
There usually is an alternative. I watch people richer than me, using more energy, complaining about the costs and how much they are struggling… Just don’t use all that energy then. But they won’t.
But that conversation seems to be impossible. They just say they NEED it. I don’t think they care, even the slightest inconvenience is too much.
Its not just energy, its almost every expense in modern life. Overconsumption won’t bring you happiness, working longer to buy more stuff isn’t going to improve your life.
agreed, and a lot of people have no choice for the fuel used to power their domiciles. If you want solar you have to own your home, not have a restrictive HOA, and have the cash (or credit rating for a decent loan) to fund it.
That’s true if you’re all-or-nothing on residential solar, but if you’re interested in making any small changes you can, a 30W solar panel is enough to charge smart phones and power banks. They come in portable versions with USB hookups and aren’t crazy expensive. Good for emergencies at the very least.
On a slightly larger scale, you can find portable power stations ranging from 500W to 2400W max continuous output, usually with built-in MPPT controllers and power inverters so you can charge them with solar and they can provide AC power. 100W panels are enough for the lower end of these, and can be daisy-chained in parallel to output higher wattage (parallel keeps the correct voltage while increasing amps; don’t do series unless you need higher voltage, which isn’t likely on this scale).
It’s not the same as running your whole house on it, but it’s better than say a backup generator, and the larger power stations can run most kitchen appliances. Or some you can use as a UPS switch, but only if it’s rated for that.
So there are options. By no means perfect. We’ll need more sweeping legislation to make residential solar more viable for more households.
And personal solar really isn’t the entire goal anyway. Symbiotic goals are appliance electrification and the most cost effective approach is when you need to anyway.
I installed a heat pump in my family room …… because the air conditioner died, and a heat pump was the same price as a new air conditioner. I still heat with gas when it gets cold but now I also have a cheaper, cleaner option in the “shoulder” seasons.
I don’t have solar, but if I could afford it, I would now also benefit even more from it
Yeah, that’s why if we had incentivized it more starting several years ago, we could have made more progress by now. But we did the opposite.
Not everything is an immediate decision. At some point renters need to renew, nomads need to relocate, people have to find a different personal vehicle: there are larger decision points. We can’t be afraid of driving those larger decisions over time
You can’t claim something is useless if people cant change their habits immediately, but they probably have a yearly apartment lease and there may be opportunities every year.
There’s still a choice. They can decide whether to drive a 15 year old pickup or a 15 year old Toyota. They have choices in how often and how far they drive. They have choices in shared transportation. Some of those choices are immediate and some build up until a bigger decision.
I’m old enough to remember car pools over commuting alone, shared shopping trips, people managing even when not everyone had a car. I remember a before time where not every adult had a car and not every car was a full sized pickup
Yep, massive expansion of solar, wind, geothermal, tidal and maybe nuclear power for some base load in combination with large amounts of battery capacity is the way to go. General enforcement of electrification is needed. Every instance where hydrocarbons are simply used for their energy content instead of their chemical properties has to be replaced by the grid (outside of emergency measures). I am sure that this would be more than enough to get global emissions under control, and would also lead to more geopolitical stability.
Make sure you remind people that this will save them on utility costs. Because that seems to be what most people care about.
Yeah, if we could have been building out the renewable energy infrastructure since 2021 like we needed to be doing, then by now it could already be a viable enough alternative that we would be able to end fossil fuel subsidies without too many people feeling the pinch, and even the stragglers would climb on board the green energy express shortly after. At that point it would be time to start ramping up taxes on fossil fuels to disincentivize it for the billionaires who would be insulated from the original price jumps.
But no, fucken Joe Manchin had to side with republicans on blocking the original Green New Deal so that we ended up with a fucking neutered compromise.
So now we have two roads in front of us: we can start building the renewable energy infrastructure and converting the grid. Or we can continue feeling the squeeze tighter and tighter each year until the price of oil is the least of our worries as food and water become scarcer and scarcer.
Choose wisely!
Rotating villains
I’m honestly starting to reassess whether it’s even worth it to put energy into a strong primary push, or if I should just sit it out and let it all crumble under its own weight.
But I know if I choose the latter, even then I won’t have the satisfaction of saying “I told you so,” because people will never learn from their mistakes, and they’ll still sideline voices like mine to be drowned out by the deafening sounds of handwringing and placating lipservice.
So reminding them that present circumstances were predicted years ago and that we should have listened then, they’ll just say “that isn’t helpful right now,” and then go back to their corporate-sponsored thinktanks who have been telling them to ignore it all along the way.
Maybe my energy would be wiser spent doing doomsday prep.
We’ll see how things go starting in January, and reassess by 2028.
I would say vote third. If an offered candidate has a history in representation, local, state, or national, you can check their voting record on ballotpedia or other sites.
There’s always disagreement between the carrot and the stick. It’s high time for both: the carrot or renewable energy and EVs and the stick of higher gas prices. We’ve wasted hundreds of billions of dollars over the last few decades trying everything except renewables: it’s time to focus on building out the obvious answer rather than finding yet another way to avoid reality while making fossil fuel executives even wealthier
But we had those incentives
- we had incentives to build out a solar industry, but no one had the patience when it’s more profitable to just let Chinese companies do it
- we had incentives for wind, and we do have huge generating capacity in a few areas but we were finally getting to building our wind for less resource rich areas (offshore wind in the northeast).
- we had incentives for companies to invest in wind and solar and retooling for new technology. Spent and thrown out before any results: it’s just more profitable to buy from China
- we had incentives for consumers to adopt solar - they were claiming a payback period of only like 5 years even here where there’s no sun
- we had incentives to make EVs cost comparable to gas cars, to guarantee a market to manufacturers and to help Manufacturers transition. It was incentive driven for all sides
I hate to be cynical of incentives but our entire economy of the last 12 years is the “face eating leopard” economy. Continuing to step on our own feet as we stumble drunkenly down the stairs is an underrated cause of Chinas success
The subsidies go to rich oil barons, too, not poor people who have to work til age 67.
Same thing for subsidizing cow milk instead of taxing it, and making the alternatives be cheaper, because they are.
With food is harder, especially cow milk which has no real substitute with the same flavor
Fossil fuels don’t taste the same as the alternatives either, sadly
That’s totally different tho, lmao
whoosh.jpg
The US is run by the companies approving and receiving those subsidies and tax breaks. The same companies who virtually refuse to manufacture electric vehicles.
Canada tried that and voters revolted. Very few people actually give a single fuck about C02 levels.
We still have corporate carbon taxes in effect, for now. I know there were talks about carving out exceptions for certain provinces that were hit hard by them but I haven’t kept up on that thread.
While I agree, it has to be done very carefully. Like, keep up with inflation with an extra cent or two on top, careful. The cost of petroleum is factored into everything due to transportation, so any change is felt practically everywhere by everyone.
Yes, that’s the point, to get all of those industries to move to renewables instead. I agree it would have to happen slowly, but you could take the money directly from the taxes and ending subsidies on fossil fuels and apply them to subsidies on renewable tech. It wouldn’t take too long before rhe crossover happened.
I’ve always been of the opinion that gas should be more expensive. This idea has been unpopular in pretty much every group I’ve exposed it to.
You’ll find it more popular here. There are at least several of us.
That’s because they have no convenient and affordable alternative. “A developed country is where rich people take the train, not where poor people drive cars”.
I’m trying to popularize the term “imagination deficit disorder”.
We built a society on driving, we can’t punish people with without valid alternatives.
We can’t make striving more expensive because it would harm more vulnerable people, but we can’t build alternatives because everyone drives.
I don’t know how to break that cycle of self-harm but maybe it starts by making driving more expensive. This is the least impactful direction because it costs only a little at a time and your own choices of vehicle and habits can make a difference.
Theres just so many areas that have no other option. The better option is force public transit in every city in America but some cities are really small. I don’t know the answer either. I work from home so it doesn’t really effect me but I feel for the people driving 100 miles a day. Also trucks that ship our food and goods will now charge more so now where effecting every person and raising prices for everything. You’d have to have a government subsidy to keep fuel cost lower for shipments
I don’t get it. I live in Texas and even with the brain dead $300 registration fee tacked on for EVs and the significantly cheaper gas prices compared to the rest of the US, it’s still multiple factors of cheaper to drive an EV.
I bought a 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV. Even with excessive use charges from the electric company and the $300 annual registration spread out over 12 months, I spend around 1/3 to 1/2 of what my Prius cost in gas I had before this vehicle. And that was a PRIUS. I’m also not counting maintenance/repair items that only apply to a gas vehicle, like the head gasket it blew up, or the oil changes, or the coil pack that died in it…
I used 375 kWh last month charging. My electric rate is $0.075 per kWh until I use more than 400 kWh in a month. Then it goes to $0.096. Even assuming that all of my charging was at the higher rate, that’s $61 for the entire month of driving, if I break out the $300 annual fee across all 12 months. To drive the same ~1500 in my Prius V that got 38MPG on average between city and highway (according to the dash), that cost around $162 per month. And that’s in Texas, where gas is $3.25 a gallon right now. This is essentially worst case scenario for an EV, given all of the things against it, and it’s still barely above 1/3 of the cost.
Imagine someone coming from a fully gas SUV, in a state where gas is more expensive, where the registration fee isn’t 3x of the income of gas taxes, etc. It would blow that person’s mind that, instead of paying $50-60 per fill up one to two times a week, they could drive an EV for that much FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH.
It’s the sticker price of EVs that is the concern for people. Maybe also the price to install a charger at home? If car manufacturers would make more affordable EVs I bet more people would happily get one when they need a new car
I bought my 2023 Bolt EUV used still with the manufacturer warranty for $15.5k. Not cheap, but certainly not insanely high either.
As for charger, most people don’t need more than a standard wall outlet provides at 115V 12 amps. I charge mine on a 230V plug at 24 amps, which most people can accomplish easily with even an existing 100 amp service panel.
Maybe also the price to install a charger at home?
I have owned an EV for 7+ years and do not have a home charger, but rarely charge anywhere else. You can charge them at 8A 120V overnight and still get more range than most people use most days. I mostly charge at 12A 120V.
If car manufacturers would make more affordable EVs I bet more people would happily get one when they need a new car
Maybe. The lack of BEVs (or even PHEVs) in the US market is certainly woeful.
I wish we could make the entire US watch that Technology Connections video. He does a very good job of explaining how cheap charging solutions are enough for most of us
I did install a level 2 charger
- it was similar cost to installing a stove circuit, plus $500 for the charger. Really not that bad
- there are several cheaper options that would have been sufficient
- after three years it’s probably paid for itself
Don’t get me wrong, a full 48a level 2 charger is a great convenience, but minimally different from, say, repurposing an electric dryer circuit
On top of that it’s more convenient (if you have a garage) and more enjoyable to drive (quieter, better acceleration).
Absolutely
Damn, jelly. I Also calculate my EV as cutting my gas cost in half but it would be harder to beat a Prius when my electric rate is $0.36 per kWh
It would blow that person’s mind that, …. they could drive an EV for that much FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH.
Surprisingly this doesn’t seem to work. Maybe it’s too abstract for many? I still get responses like “but damn that would really hit your electric bill”. I mean sure but it’s only half.
You sure it’s not $0.036? That seems excessively high.
If that’s actually what you’re paying, I’d seriously consider getting solar to offset the costs.
Yeah it’s pretty damn high, and that’s why I’ve been annoyed that Trump keeps trying to kill our offshore wind farms.
I looked into solar a few times and regret not doing so before the incentives were killed. They are still claiming seven year payback based on electricity prices and state incentives, but that upfront cost is a killer.
The solar installer industry is still full of scammers and greasy salesmen. Every negative stereotype you’ve seen about used car salesmen is so much more true of solar installer sales. Every time I’d barely get started in the process and already feel violated. It was such an unpleasant experience I was never willing to complete the process
It’s the only way we got rid of CFCs
Capitalism will kill us all because it’s profitable to do so
the corporations need to be brought on their knees. its either that or its us on our knees in the end.
Cut the subsidies they get, and put an environmental tax on its use. The problem is a lot of that will be passed to consumers and it will hit individuals more, so once again large companies won’t notice.
That’s the point though. When they pass the costs on to consumers, we significantly reduce our fossil fuel usage, and actively seek out alternatives.
I’m sure all of the poor people would take the bus if we had any buses.
There would be pain, especially among those who can least afford it, but pain drives change. Pain drives improvement. Why are we trying to prop up harmful industries when we know there’s something better do close we can practically taste it. How is it helping anyone to prolong the agony ?
It’s time to rip that bandage off. Force politicians and manufacturers to listen to the yelps. Heal those injuries, by moving more quickly to something that’s actually better
Poor people need to get to work so they can continue to eat. If you rip off that bandaid, you have a lot of starving poor people.
True enough, if they can change. Not everyone can buy a replacement EV or put up some solar panels, they just have to use the same things they have now at a higher cost. The transition is the issue, and a transition without a way to help those hit hardest will hurt. But you’re right, demand goes down either way.
Sadly we used to have a carbon tax, but we had to appease the morons.
Creating carbon credits didn’t help. Traded like baseball cards, or more often “lost” in the shuffling around of buying more carbon producing time.
The only green that a lot of people think about is money.
Yeah it’s a shame the most effective way used so much violence. It would be nice if we could just protest it away but sadly only the more radical solutions actually work in the end. Luckily we’re all the bigger person so none of us would do the violent thing. Let’s look at our heros for what to do in these situations. All those posters talked about Malcom X at school I wonder what he would do?
So… Trump did something that had a positive effect? Not that it’s a net positive, I mean, he started an illegal war and bombed schools with kids inside. And talking about children, don’t forget he raped kids.
On a global scale, Trump has done a lot of good by directly undermining the power of the US Empire and accelerating its decline.
Accelerationism Works, just so long as you don’t count all the people viciously slaughtered in the transitional period
Thankfully, most accelerationists are privileged white people living in very blue states and cities, so that’s very easy to ignore.
most accelerationists are privileged white people
Most people you interact with online are privileged.
I think you’d be surprised to see how many people are perfectly fine with burning Western Imperialism down once you get outside your bubble
I’m pretty sure it’s a rule of privilege to think you’re not privileged.
Thinking is a privilege, TIL
That’s what you got out of it? Well, if thinking is a privilege it’s most certainly one you don’t have.
Trump has done quite a few positive things
- he triggered increased growth in renewable energy
- he encouraged Europe to stand stronger together
- he encouraged Canada to pursue stronger trading partnership with Europe
- he’s building unity in the United Nations
- he’s helping China emerge as a “good guy”
- he’s helping legacy auto manufacturers transition the industry to new technology companies without a fight
- he’s helped the worlds richest man come out as his true self, instead of merely a quirky businessman with the vision to invest in future technologies that disrupt stagnant established industries
- and lately Trump is the one who has done the most by far to build political activity, shared view on the direction of the country and renews enthusiasm across the Democrat party
Why is this downvoted? Trump’s policies ironically helped other countries but not the country he leads!
he encouraged Europe to stand stronger together
Jury still hella out on that one.
he’s helping China emerge as a “good guy”
More like enabling China to do whatever the fuck they want, which isn’t good. China is far from a good guy.
he triggered increased growth in renewable energy
Did he? He’s hard against it. There’s only a growth because AI data centers take any form of energy. But the growth of fossil fuel energy sources is growing even more.
he encouraged Europe to stand stronger together
He’s also trying to divide Europe, which is far more successful than I wish it was.
Was meant to be not entirely serious, but yes.
- the more we stoop to Chinas level on genocide, human rights violations, data privacy issues, they do look better. Relatively speaking
- global adoption of renewable energy has accelerated recently in respond to trumps actions such as disrupting international trade and bombing Iran
China is far from a good guy.
How many countries has China bombed in the last two years?
The county of China has committed the unforgivable act of Being Prosperous Without Being White.
Westerners will never forgive them.
India also increasingly on the Western shit list, as evidenced by folks like Bo French losing their shit over kids cheering a football game.
How many
OeigoersUyghurs are in concentration camps? How many people are being secretly executed in mobile execution vans? All while they are preparing to invade Taiwan, make predatory deals with African countries and commit murder abroad to anyone considered enemy of the state. Oh and did you know they are building the strongest most modern military right now? They used to be defensive, but are now fully focusing on offensive. I wonder why…There are other ways than bombing countries to be fucking evil.
OeigoersUyghurs
I knew it was bad spelling, I even googled it. But instead of the English spelling, I ended up with the Dutch spelling instead. Thanks for correcting me :)
I don’t think all things considered your criteria for evil can be applied to all the big countries around the world especially US.
How many Oeigoers are in concentration camps?
Guy in a country overflowing with concentration camps, currently carpet bombing multiple countries for being too Muslim
“Okay, but consider Xinjiang!”
Incidentally…
Fascist westerners absolutely seeth when they see this picture.
All while they are preparing to invade Taiwan
Americans have accused China of planning to invade Taiwan longer than they’ve been accusing Iran of plotting to bomb Israel.
More efforts have been made by Taiwanese nationalists to retake the mainland than the reverse.
Guy in a country overflowing with concentration camps, currently carpet bombing multiple countries for being too Muslim
I didn’t know The Netherlands has concentration camps. What country are we bombing for being too Muslim?
More efforts have been made by Taiwanese nationalists to retake the mainland than the reverse.
Oh hi Chinese government worker!
FFS… Either you’re insanely ignorant and dumb, or you’re getting paid for spreading propaganda.
I didn’t know The Netherlands has concentration camps.
https://www.kampwesterbork.nl/en
Literally where Anne Frank was killed.
But more recently?
https://www.nature.com/articles/palcomms201784
You’re a favorite for extraordinary renditions going on 30 years easy
What country are we bombing for being too Muslim?
Afghanistan and Libya, just for starters. Y’all also perpetrated a horrific bombing in Yugoslavia during the 90s.
Operation Inherent Resolve was as recent as 2014, spanning Iraq and Syria. Operation Prosperity Guardian, Poseidon Archer, and Aspides in Yemen. And you’ve been up in Somalia’s business for… centuries?
Christ, the Dutch have been fucking with the African coastline since before the US was even a country.
you’re insanely ignorant
Hehe. Okay, buddy.
Lol, let’s not forget the democratic party is all about breaking oil production records, war and genocide, same as the republicans. The problem is America, not the controlling uniparty.
For sure changing the party in charge is only a first step. Now we need to come together in the fight to change Democrat party leadership. The old leadership is clearly part of the problem and needs to go.
Best of luck
Trump almost single handedly destroying American hard and soft power is unironically one of the greatest achievements of the human race up to this point. He is accidentally a great man of history, lol.
He is accidentally a great man of history
I wouldn’t go as far as that honestly. He’s still a child raping corrupt piece of shit.
It’s like saying Hitler was a good guy because of all the autobahns.
Trump is not a good man, but he is undeniably a Great Man, in the sense of the Great Man theory of history, which claims that the path of history is set by a handful of specific personalities pushing the world in directions via their will.
Put it like this: the Napoleonic era was named after Napoleon because so much of the history requires reading Napoleon’s bio. Eventually, these last 12+ years will be called the Trump era.
Unfortunately I agree with you but let’s not forget that Reagan walked so Trump could waddle. Without Reagan we wouldn’t have Trump or a recognizable Republican party. I don’t know what we would have but he started the trend of deregulation, tough on crime, and antimmigrationism that is the root of Republican beliefs today. Trump is just really good at taking credit for other people’s work.
Well yes, but also destroying America and its power is objectively a good thing for the majority of living things (people and animals) on the planet.
He’s not doing it on purpose, he’s a selfish rapist narcissist, so he’s not a good person, but this action specifically is good.
He is a Great Man of history, who accidentally did a good thing, and is a fucking awful villain.
The autobahns arent doing illegal wars, genocides, and accelerating climate change lol.
what. They literally were connected to ALL of your points?? They were built to facilitate large scale military logistics, moving troops AND victims of the largest genocide in Europe??
Actually they used trains, lol.
But only for the final transport. Almost everyone was first picked up by trucks, transported to smaller processing and/or work camps, before then being moved either by trucks to different work sites or train towards the Vernichtungslager.
They also used the trains for industrial and military transport lol
They even had an artillary cannon mounted on the rails, though it was pretty useless.
The Louis XVI of America
Sucks how our quality of life has been made inversely proportional to the health of the environment. Most of us have been locked in to fossil fuel dependence whether we like it or not.
covid showed us that at a large scale. we all took a step back animals started reclaming the earth.
And all it cost was millions of human lives!
Most people opt for suburban/sprawling lifestyles when they could live in higher density.
In the US, even the denser populated areas are still sprawling, car-dependent wastelands. Actual, healthy, walkable cities are few and far between, and are almost always reserved for rich people.
Actual, healthy, walkable cities are few and far between, and are almost always reserved for rich people.
“Actually Healthy,” meaning what?
I don’t agree—there are many old cities and even new urbanist planned areas. If people create demand, construction will follow, and that has consistently been toward greenfield developments.
You’re free to disagree. The US is a big place, I’m sure there are some exceptions out there. But I think generally my point is correct.
The northeast has many more densely populated places with great walkability, but in general, look for place built out before cars drove sprawl.
And many of these places are also the most desirable. The places people most want to live.
You got us on the “rich people” though. We definitely have a real problem with high cost of living. My state’s population has long been stable to shrinking, predominantly because people just can’t afford to live here.
We lost ballot question 7 to override minimum lot sizes across the state to a mere 5,000 sq ft, by only 32,000 votes and many of these opponents thought it wouldn’t have been enough. The breakdown was exactly as you’d expect with urban areas agreeing and sprawling suburbs disaagreeing
You can only take so many job opportunities and if your career you paid to go to college to master or even took advantage of a free college initiative (like Massachusetts has), isn’t near your areas then you’re settling to a lifestyle so you can chain yourself down to living in apartments fuckin’ doing a career you hate and most likely will never get out of debt.
Like Boston is mainly coders and medical field . If you’re doing anything at just above minimum wage you’re living with 4 other strangers.
In Boston the train works well, outside of it, good fuckin’ luck with the cr and bus services out of the mbta’s reach meaning no Charlie card access. Worcester WRTA has Charlie card access but I don’t know of anything further on other sides. I’m guessing it’s the same…
It’s fucked but if you want to live cheap you need to live out of the city. There’s nice places out of the city, you just need a vehicle.
Personally I think there needs to be an absolute cap of 450k$ that an individual can sell a home for. I think that there needs to be an alternative fuel cell that’s not purely batteries but an actual liquid fuel. I think that it’s criminal that people charge homes for a mil and up. The market changing and affordability would assure homeowners. Also the criminal aprs for home purchasing loans is beyond unreasonable. If the aprs for mortgages crashed we’d all be doing a little better not fully okay but a lot better. You’d still have to find an affordable home you can put a mortgage on that’s most likely in the 450k$ range.
Michigan, Ohio and Kentucky have a decent real estate but you’re gonna be near nothing and will need car to get to your jobs. That’s everywhere. That’s not, “the rich,” that’s just the average US economic infrastructure. The only upper hand,“the rich,” have is they get to sit in traffic for less getting to work in the inner cities because they’re closer.
Let’s all concede and never drive gas cars or buy houses… Awesome attitude for the public.
I don’t think caps on house prices would be practical since there’s always supply and demand. Boston is a great example where things would be expensive anyway but we’re tens of thousands of housing units behind demand. There’s no quick answer but the MBTA communities zoning law should encourage more apartments and condos near transit over time. Overriding minimum lot size would have done similar for suburbs. At least potentially. Catching supply up to demand is part of the answer. And it won’t be fast. But it’s a start
Let’s all concede and never drive gas cars or buy houses
I completely disagree that this needs to be “conceding”. It can be a valid choice and we need to turn it into a good choice for ever more people.
- Many years ago I lived for a year in Boston without a car. It was very freeing, was a fantastic improvement in my life, many things were much more convenient, and I saved so much money. The major downside was that not everyone lived in Boston, but this is an opportunity to build on. This can be a valid, cheaper, and better choice for many people. It’s already true for millions in New York City and we can do the same. Let’s build a city where people find this a better life!
- I no longer drive a gas car and this is a good solution for at least a quarter of the us. That portion will continue to grow as we build out more charging solutions and will actually be affordable if we can end tariffs and protectionism
- MBTA needs to adjust to the reality that we no longer commute to Boston for work. Scheduling and frequency changes could make commuter rail useful for a lot more errands, and there are many proposals to build out service
My goal is to own a house. I hate renting. When you rent you’re locked in to so many stipulations and regulations it’s not living it’s surviving. If you want to live you need your own place, if you want to survive, you rent.
Maybe that’s just Boston but I plan on buying a house ont he outskirts Boston or outer areas like Woburn or potentially even int he western Massachusetts areas cause they’re notoriously a bit cheaper but again one county away, you need a car because the cr comes two hours max away and that’s a two hour wait.
They’re building like crazy near me and… Who’s affording these places?
I’d rather the revolving issues of owning a house, than pay 21,600$ a year, 1,800$/MO.
That’s such a waste of you actually play the medical field or coding though because then you’re better off a mortgage.
Again they already are building like fucking crazy. The question is, who can afford them, sorry it just pisses me off thinking keep building dense apartment communities being the answer. If there’s supply and demand then maybe the demand shouldn’t be able to hit over certain amount in price. Like fuck man there’s a housing crisis , saying supply and demand for who? ??? If you have over 650k$ and get lucky.
Capping the housing market, though would have the downfall of making it so people would hold until laws would change so they could sell for higher so the revolving issue of affordability vs area vs job market I guess is just a thing.
While the title is technically true, it’s incredibly misleading to people who don’t read carefully, which unfortunately makes up a huge part of the internet
We’re gonna get a bunch of dumbasses thinking that the Iran war is somehow good for the environment
Clearly, we need to make it into WW3 for even more environmental friendliness
I was almost excited, but then you (rightfully) crushed it, OP.
With all sources of carbon considered, including deforestation, total global CO2 emissions are set to continue increasing.
Sigh. Still on track for my children starving to death in the famines to come.
Don’t worry, it won’t only be your children, it will also be you!
Yea, I guess I figured if the worst takes 15 years to get here, then I’ll be older and killed by it and it’ll be okay because my kids will be young adults with their best chance of survival.
But if it’s next year, then my kids are still pretty young and vulnerable. And if my kids don’t make it, I don’t really care to either.
Wait a minute, that didn’t rhyme!
Unless you’re over 70, I’ve got some bad news about you starving to death too.
Every single negative impact of climate change has happened and is happening “faster than expected” according to the world’s leading climate scientists.
Next year could be a multi breadbasket failure, leading to hundreds of millions of deaths.
Don’t worry, the poisoned water and food will probably get them first.
Yeah. Sorry.
With all sources of carbon considered, including deforestation, total global CO2 emissions are set to continue increasing.
Well that’s not good.
This is why a carbon tax on fuel would help, and why ending fossil fuel subsidies would also help. Even both isn’t the end of government action, but they would both be good way to incentivize using alternatives.
The purpose of fuel taxes in Europe is essentially that, though more broadly for ICE car pollution rather than just CO2 emissions.
While I don’t know how it gets allocated (probably all into the general fund and then out to military contractors), U.S. fuel also has existing taxes that are supposed to go toward road maintenance. At least that’s the justification my state of Arkansas gives for charging me extra fees to register my Volt, which they treat as an EV: it doesn’t use (as much) fuel, but it does require (just as) maintained roadways.
Technically true but I stopped buying that line decades ago
- if true, why has it been frozen for decades? Gas taxes long since stopped being anywhere near enough. We’re paying for road maintenance out of general taxes. It’s not valid to claim road users pay for themselves
- there’s no world where incentivizing less efficient vehicles is good for anything beyond immediate profits
Gasoline taxes are like coal, failing to achieve its goals in a decades long slide to meaninglessness. We long since have needed to replace gas taxes for funding road maintenance
If the extra taxes on your volt were justified, they are justified for all personal vehicles, fairly. Let the gas taxes go toward reducing the industry’s impact on the environment and society
Surely beuracracy will save the day, lol
I said 20 years ago that we should let gas prices rise. My target at the time was $10/gallon. If we believe capitalism works then let it work for us. You add another digit to the cost of regular unleaded and you watch how fast people adopt EVs.
Climate Change wasn’t the focus of my angst back then but probably should have been.
EVs are only marginally better. Public transit is the answer.
just like reduce -> reuse -> recycle which is ordered in what you should do first.
Same can be said for transit, reduce the need for transit first (work from home), then use public transit, then use non-fossil fuel vehicles.
Also like recycling, EVs are a way for corporations to push the responsibility for environmentalism onto the individual.
Public transit won’t work in a lot of america. And a lot of america cannot afford an ev.
I even weigh the costs of an ev , but its just too much to offset. Not to mention unrepairable and loaded with spyware.
What’s your source for that claim regarding public transit? Especially considering every single town in America once had rail connections and street cars?
The america that isnt new York and LA. The whole middle part there.
Public transit will not work for rural areas or cities under a million. Its fine, we dont need it. Although I’d be all for banning cars downtown.
Why not? Public transit often reaches villages of a few hundred people in Germany despite being pretty patchy compared to the past. I live in a rural part of Germany and I don’t need a car at all. I have to acknowledge that having one does give you an edge in many cases, but it’s not a necessity. I’ve never had a car.
The US are a lot more spacious, yes, so the infrastructure would cost more to build and maintain, but that’s more of a “Do we want to spend money on that?” problem, rather than a “Would it work?” problem. Get some autonomous busses maybe and you don’t even need drivers.
What am I missing?
Public transit will not work for rural areas or cities under a million.
Rural areas in America are net drain on society. And the term rural is kind of pushing it especially in the east. It’s more of a sprawling strip mall/car dealership hellscape that’s occasionally interrupted by churches, trees and farms It’s a shit life and so many people are trapped here because of cost of living. We should be getting people out of those areas. Then it would be a moot point.
Yep suburban hell is a thing. However some of us prefer the peace of rural living. I don’t prefer nearby neighbors and they dont prefer me as I am loud. I cannot be crammed in like sardines like so many lemmings prefer to be, I just can’t understand wanting that.
Still waiting for that citation
That’s dumb, all cars have the tech issues these days
Yes but I drive old cars. The slate is the only ev I’d remotely consider.
Oh we should give Iran a Nobel peace prize for actions that helped cut CO2 emissions. That’ll drive trump crazy, I really want to see that I could do with a good laugh.
So incompetent he even fails at killing clean energy
Our favourite president, Degrowth Don.
Not really, not even for long enough to enjoy the joke. The push to mow down the US national parks is still easy to recall.
Access Roads and drilling rights in what used to be protected public lands are not something that just go away when you say “jk, protected again”
Dont forget demand destruction, I finally bought an electric car this year after years of putting it off. Since the oil companies jacked up their prices in response to a war for which they supported the very candidate who caused it, I said enough is enough. Hopefully I will never buy gas again in my life.
Technology connections pitches electric cars I think in the way that speaks to many more people than the usual environment pitch. Basically " wouldn’t you want energy independence?"
I’m actually surprised he didn’t bring up how the regular maintenance on an EV is non-existent; it’s a lot less hassle. There’s no regular oil changes, for example. Even your brakes can last longer if you’re good at single-pedal mode.
If you work with any kind of machinery the reliability of modern ice vehicles is crazy good. People treat them like shit often and they still go. Lots of other machinery has maintenance schedules in single digit hours.
can confirm. my vehicle is a piece of shit because I didn’t bother undercoating it, I drive it hard at times, I ignore CELs, I put off maintenance, etc
still running. mostly figured out that the idle and not starting after fueling issues I’ve been having was related to PCV valve and throttle body, but the exhaust still has lots of holes, the fuel tank will start leaking soon, and the suspension is entirely worn out (ok that one is just age)
and yet it keeps running
I think we need to be careful about pushing this. In concept there is less maintenance, more reliability, but it comes down to quality and engineering.
Legacy technology has very mature engineering where they’ve done really well with cars that keep running despite everything. EV technology is less mature and legacy companies are still struggling to transition to new concepts and practices. It hasn’t always been smooth and any race to cheaper prices will not help
Its a little depressing that it’s the only argument that has a chance on most people. Killing millions? Don’t care. Saving a bit of money? Ohh yeah!
Yeah I hate people too
If I could be dictator for a day, climate change would be solved and so many would hate me.
Huh. Mostly just the consumerists and authoritarians who ended up hating me. The poorer parts of the world became more prosperous too.
I can usually assuage the consumerists by implementing champagne socialism, but the authoritarians (and usually the accelerationsists and Malthusians) never get along with me.
But, depending which disasters hit and how quickly I have also been deposed several times, even once after restoring the climate to pre-industrial quality.
The sad thing is that, like everything, the only people who can escape the insane prices are the ones in a place privileged enough to be able to afford to. I live in an apartment building and even if I was on the first floor and my landlord was ok with me running an extension cord out my window, across the pathway, and to the parking lot (I’m not and they’d kill me) fairly often I have to park my car 2 buildings away and walk the equivalent of a block and a half to my apartment. I also can’t come close to affording a new car, mine is from the early 2010s. I drive an hour to work and an hour to school in the opposite direction, and constantly driving 20 minutes to the nearest charging station isn’t a viable option either (nor is public transportation or an e-bike, because of the distances I go every day).
I’m all for electric and I’m glad you were able to make the switch, but a lot of us who can’t afford the gas prices sure as hell can’t afford to buy electric, because it’s not just the car, it’s the logistics. Until the infrastructure for electric becomes more common and apartment complexes put charging stations in (I’m sure some do, but I can’t afford rent in those places) electric cars are a privilege for the rich and those who live in houses and have private parking.
Does your work or school not have charging points? If not, that’s the classic supply-demand problem…
Like, I don’t have charging at home either, but I can drive several hours without charging. You possibly could too. Have you checked your stretches on something like A Better Routeplanner for example?
Even if I was to use exclusively superfast charging, it’d still be cheaper than diesel. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, and drive to the middle of nowhere, the charge-anxiety can often be exaggerated, or at least it was in my case.
(I understand the real problem is an electric car might not be affordable enough for you, but I’ve become peeved about charge-anxiety)
My work and school do not have charging points. I also put in 70 hour weeks between work and school, I’m not spending any of my precious little free time driving 20 minutes away to sit in a parking lot and charge.
Why new car? There are electric cars from the early 2010s as well, some of them even have free charging!
I know this might sound offcolor, but why even have a car at all at that point? Why not move to a supermajor city where you can bike/transit everywhere instead?
I was in a very similar situation to you when I moved out of my parents’s house and above is similar to what I did.
Moving is extremely expensive. Besides passing for a truck and fuel, you pay first, last, and often an additional month’s rent, if renting, plus utility deposits, but any deposit refunds usually lag a month. Assume you also are still working trying to get all this done, or aren’t and on a fixed income.
It totally is expensive, but it’s cheaper than driving 2 hours a day for 2-4 years (insurance, maintenance, registration, gas). Besides that, the health of the matter is that driving that much is terrible for you physically.
Cars have become this albatross across everyone’s neck in the US, and it makes me super sad that people don’t naturally try to get away from being chained to one.
Okay but f the poor who can’t and most need to do that. 🤷♀️
It’s like I said, it is possible to save up money by extreme measures, considering that 2+hours of driving is already in that camp (especially as a student). The sad thing is that even with a bachelors degree, that’s not even enough to “solve” one’s financial problems in the short term. It took me 7 years after college to start to become financially independent. All I’m saying is that it’s generally easier to rip off the bandaid sooner and move to the city and just not have a car.
What extreme measures? Selling drugs or oneself, stealing and fencing, robbery?
And yet even you
- probably decide every year whether to continue living there
- may have some influence with your landlord or your employer or where you run errands.
Charging at home is certainly the cheapest most convenient option. A few landlords will support that (we used to have incentives). When your lease ends, looking for a charging option may modify your decision.
But more and more places have destination charging. Some restaurants. Some parking garages. Some shopping centers. If I regularly went to the mall, it would be trivial to keep my vehicle charged. I also have free charging at work! But the point is to look around. There are options, more all the time, and at done point it may work for you
Most landlords have no incentives to install chargers until people ask for it and make decisions on it.
decide every year to continue living there
My landlord is awesome, my apartment is nice, my rent is on the cheaper end and they barely raise it every year, and I quite literally can’t afford to move right now.
I don’t go to restaurants (I can’t afford it) and the nearest shopping centers with charging ports have the charger I was talking about that is 20 minutes away. We don’t have parking garages here,I don’t live in a city (nor do I want to).
I’m not changing my entire life for a fucking car, and I couldn’t even if I wanted to.
You people make it so simple and think everyone who doesn’t follow the party line is a traitor, but some of us don’t have the means or privilege to do so and I just wanted to point that out.
I didnt intend to reply that it is simple or that anyone can do it. But some can. And there are clear ways to enable more. And changes like this snowball over time
You do make the decision to stay and that makes sense in your scenario. But some of the decision factors are changing over time for some people, and that may change their decisions.
For examples I’d always advocate for incentives for landlords to install EV charging. Some will. Some already are. And that will be a deciding factor for some people. It may be all too rare now but we can bring it forth
I hope that for you too. Luckily, I live near very good public trans, so for me, an e-scooter’s really all I need.
I mean we as a society have to ask, would we accept this level of insane fluctuation from anything else we buy? If you went to the store one day and bread was $2 bux a loaf, then you go again 3 days later and its $17, then a few days later is $9… Society would collectively say get your shit together on pricing! And we’d never buy bread again.
Well now Im never buying gas again. And its their own fault.
Fuel prices went up a lot but the price swings are still nowhere near the example prices you gave there…
It went from 1,5 - 1,6 € per litre to about 2,5 € per litre here, not from 1,5 to 9. And the changes are happening, people are buying more electric cars and home batteries+solar is growing very rapidly… So no, people are not accepting it, despite the price increase still being manageable (and price still being rather steady, it basically just swung up quickly at the Iran fiasco and then plateau there)
It’s a nice thought, but presumably (based on geography) you might be able to live with lower gas consumption. At least here in the US, it’s wholly possible that you only have one place to acquire groceries where you live.
Well that’s a double edged sword. There’s so much fluctuation in part because it’s such a ubiquitous commodity, availability is high and margins are low.
If branding mattered more (like with groceries) then prices would be more stable (but higher).
But as it is, nobody cares that much what brand of gas they get, it’s just gas. A name brand can’t demand a higher price just because it’s a name brand, nobody cares.
Society would collectively say get your shit together on pricing! And we’d never buy bread again.
I mean, prices at the pump aren’t fluctuating that much, but I do get your meaning. That said, in general people don’t really have much of a choice when it comes to food, we have to eat. I mean, do you remember how eggs surged in price during the pandemic years? People still bought them, it just sucked. Oh we complained about it alright! But we as a society didn’t do anything
Which one may I ask?
