I’m interested in hearing what Lemmings think about hunting. I started hunting deer years ago because I wanted to be a part of the process, like if I couldn’t handle killing and gutting an animal I shouldn’t be eating meat. IMO, it’s much more humane than what factory farmed animals endure. Less suffering overall than most natural deaths. Overpopulation causes disease and starvation and we killed off their predators, so we kind of owe it to nature to fill the ecological gap.
Also, I fucking love it. I watch the sun rise, think, record birds I’ve seen, think, watch squirrels play, think a bit more, and sometimes, I get some food.
Idk. I’m not looking for approval or trying to change your mind, just wondering what people think.
I think its fine for animals whose population has to be controlled through hunting. The absolute worst way of consuming meat is through mass production. Best case would be we remove ourselves (humanity) from the chain, but thats a long process and cant be done without properly reintroducing predators etc.
From Europe, I share your Arguments although I am vegan. I would however prefer to get natural predators back and not controlling populations by hunting so they fit into the modern agricultural understand of “enough”.
Yes, wolves in the suburbs is a great idea, nobody will be upset about that
I actually kind of dont like it as a past time. Its just very time consuming. Its an early morning activity if you want to maximise your chances. It takes a lot of focus too, which i can struggle with.
Doing it with friends and family, getting to immerse myself in the less tended to parts of the land, and getting food for me and everyone is what makes it worth it to me. Its also a little humbling if you are doing it legally and being a good sport about it, which is good chance to respect our other brothers and sisters as they are and not just as objects or fiction.
From a ecological managment standpoint, taking of areas so an herbavore herd can safely graze on non-crops and help maintain that part of the ecosystem is really cool to. Not everything can be industrialized (in fact i think we should deindustrialize a lot of the food industry, but that is a tough path), but also not space for wildlife can be kilometers away from any human structure (though more space would be good for our planet too).
If humanity subsisted off hunted food, we would eat the last wild animal before the first afternoon of the first day. Hunting is a selfish, needlessly cruel, unsustainable practice.
“I don’t like facts!”
Hunting with a valid reason (for food, population control, etc.) is acceptable and/or a necessity.
Hunting for funsies only - including all the BS safari hunting that are essentially glorified high tech fishing trips - is disgusting
BS safari hunting funds conservation in ways that are unachievable otherwise
Well, then this funding source should not be pursued
Then animals die, populations drop, restoration programs end
Not if the funding is made up somewhere else?
It isn’t though, which is why conservation groups that hunt are a net positive in practice. The members also tend to discourage poaching, push harder for maintaining ecosystems, and other stuff beyond what funding can do on its own because the individuals who tend to be involved have ofher forms of influence and power.
It sucks that this is how the world works, but in this specific case it works.
Yeah, I’m less so making at argument about what is currently happening, and more just saying that I would prefer a world in which we fund conservation differently, and we should try to move things in that direction
Two kinds of people typically hunt endangered animals: rich assholes and starving people. A straight ban on hunting these animals does nothing to solve either problem.
We know rich assholes are going to do what they want by whatever means, including exploiting animals and the poor, so I don’t think I need to go into that.
Poor people will hunt endangered animals or take rich people to hunt them because both those paths lead to them and their families eating. They may care about the animals, they may not, but they and their families need food and money to live.
Legalized hunting of endangered game does a lot to solve all these problems. Poor people become legitimate guides. Poachers in places like Tanzania were for a while allowed to be killed legally. Now they aren’t shot for trying to provide food for people and are putting the money into their villages. The people now have economic incentive to protect these animals to protect their new local tourism. Associated services are created to make the destination attractive. Governments see the benefit of monitoring and protecting these species.
It’s not perfect. Anti-poaching measures leads to violence on both sides, just as things like the war on drugs. Things like legalized gambling, drugs, and prostitution help prevent exploitation, keeps participants safer in their activities, and allows monitoring and oversight by regulators. Some will still poach no matter what. But it brings more things to the open and people can work with facts and figures about their local situations.
I don’t like the idea of trophy hunting anymore than I like seeing people participate in other senseless and destructive vices, but we can ensure people do things in ways that are better and safe for all involved.
I do hunt for one deer a year myself. Where I am has a higher number than is sustainable, and with people having less money and time off than ever, the state cannot get all the deer they want to be hunted as things are. It lets me take one animal that gets me through most of the year instead of however many from the store, and I know it’s all natural and never spent a moment in captivity. Hunting is mostly a chore for me, though I do enjoy the time in the woods and spending a few days with my brother.
There’s an incredible Radio Lab episode called “the rhino hunter” that deep dives into this fact, and it’s honestly one of the most emotionally confusing pieces of media I’ve ever encountered. Highly recommend.
“Man, this baby grinding machine sure eats a lot of babies, but think of all the money it generates!”
Shooting a deer that’s lived wild and free, making every effort to make the kill as quick and painless as possible seems like just about the most ethical way to get meat that I can think of. And especially in areas where the deer population is too high, it’s really important for managing the ecosystem. Plus, ammo and equipment sales get taxed specifically to fund conservation, which is important.
I also feel like if you can’t stomach the process of killing and cleaning an animal, maybe you shouldn’t eat meat at all?
By and large, I think hunting for food is a great way to get more in touch with where your food comes from, one of the most ethical ways to acquire meat, and a nice excuse to sit quietly in the woods without interruption. Trophy hunters can fuck off tho.
I can accept trophy hunting for population control, but I will still think less of them for wanting to do it
if I couldn’t handle killing and gutting an animal I shouldn’t be eating meat
I had this exact line of thinking. But for me that means I don’t eat meat anymore. Killing really turns my stomach, and I don’t actually need meat to be healthy.
But I love hiking and camping, I just bring my own food instead of a gun or fishing pole.
Depends on the type. Hunting pests like rabbits possums pigs, inseason game like ducks, pheasant and deer is all great. I dont like hunting rare endangered animals or helicopter hunting with a machine gun except if its a pest culling like feral pigs.
For the activity I really enjoy it. Its a great outdoor activity to do with friends and family. I like getting up early and heading out across the paddocks in the crisp morning and seeing the sun come out. I dont like butchering because im pretty odd about textures and smells but i’ll do it when i have to. I dont find it to be inhumane at all.
Hunting for food is fine.
Hunting for trophies is not.
Throws away Xbox
No, no. Hunting for achievements is okay. It’s the Playstation you need to throw away.
I’ve worked in wildlife conservation, and I’m all for it. With a few caveats.
- Be a fucking good shot. Practice. Don’t slop and wound. Humane kills to the greatest extent possible. Know what the fuck you’re doing.
- Eat the meat. Venison is delicious. Harvest, don’t just take a trophy.
- No spears. Holy shit, please. See point 1. Why is this still a thing? Even a niche thing, but still.
- Don’t scoff at tag prices. Be proud of your contribution. Donate to the crunchy granola hippies that ensure you have game to hunt.
I’m lucky to live somewhere with too many deer and not enough hunters. I paid $25 and got six tags. Another $25 for gun season and I could theoretically take a dozen.
Venison IS delicious.
I’m just realizing I haven’t had any venison since I moved out of parent’s house. Dad was a poor hunter but my cousin was a good one so there was always some meat in the fall.
If you ask around, you might be surprised who has some in their freezer and would be willing to trade something else for it. One time when I was visiting my parents we wanted some and asked around and found out one of my mom’s friends had plenty. Traded them a pan of brownies and bottle of wine for a couple pounds of stew meat. Everyone was a winner.
I live in the SF Bay Area now. Not a lot deer hunting in Oakland.
edit - parents live in upstate NY where the deer population needs to be kept in chek.
Deer are farmed, too. You can just buy venison at fancy butcher shops in many large cities.
Or, maybe you’ve heard about buying things online.
https://www.blackwing.com/venison.html
https://meatnbone.com/collections/venison
Finding venison isn’t an impossible task by any stretch of the imagination.
Also have a degree in wildlife conservation and I second all of this.
not the answer you’re looking for, but: i haven’t eaten meat in five years, am the healthiest I’ve ever been, and no longer feel guilty about eating
As long as it’s done responsibly and legally I have no issues with it.
It’s legal so it’s cool is such a weird mindset
Not in this case, because hunting legally means you are preserving the ecosystem, culling a population that would likely starve in the winter and preserving breeding stock to keep the species going in a healthy manner without genetic bottlenecks.
MIssouri has some absolutely amazing wildlife preservation because conservationist make common cause with hunters.
Great point. The people in charge of regulating hunting, are the same people that decided that they love nature enough to dedicate their lives to protecting it. They aren’t trying to “sell more licenses” or promote hunting, they’re just maintaining the balance, and keeping people and nature safer.
I mean, ideally, yes; I wouldn’t romanticize the entire hunting population, given the amount of garbage I see in the woods.
Oh of course, there are assholes in every group! But I also wasn’t even talking about the hunters themselves, but the DCNR or whatever your state calls them.
Yes. I just visited Missouri once and whatever department in charge of hunting/preservation put out this amazing magazine just absolutely dripping with love for nature, a combo of hunting advice, animal lore, and scenery porn. I remember one article in particular about how to stack brush to encourage critters to grow; sure, maybe you want to grow critters so your beagle can flush them out and you can shoot them, but still, kinda cool to have SOME responsible stewardship with the land instead of playing Playstation all day.
https://mdc.mo.gov/magazines/missouri-conservationist
I live in MO and used to hunt, but I remember getting this magazine as a kid and loved flipping through them.
Obviously depends on the country, but in most develop countries the law is reasonable enough that it’s a useful shorthand for what is ok in day-to-day situations.
If you assume that legal means we’ve collectively decided that this is or is not okay, then it’s not a weird starting point. IMO it shouldn’t be the end point but it’s USUALLY a good starting point.
I’m pretty simple.
Hunting to eat it? Great. I love me some deer sausage.
Hunting to chopoff its head and mount it on your wall like some ghoulish asshole? Go fuck yourself.
I feel like trophy hunters don’t show any respect to the animal, while hunters for eating do.
I’d add hunting because humans eliminated all natural predators and we need to control the population to prevent disease and starvation.
Yes. That’s true as well.
It’s cool and good, but where I live it’s becoming increasingly expensive. Yes to locals/workers hunting their own food on communal land. No to upper class bastards flying in to hunt, getting themselves and their setters airlifted back to a lodge for lunch, etc. And trophy hunting should not be a thing.
I’m from Finland, which has a 1340km border with Russia.
When my grandad grew up you’d either hunt or fish if you wantes to eat. My dad hunted. I’m the only one of my siblings with a hunting license. I was raised with a lot of “when the Russians come”-mentality.
I’ve been moving countries, so I’ve had to give up my rifles and I’m not that passionate about it that I’d figure out where to go do it. But I do think it’s a good skill to have, and I keep my license active.
And my two spaniels would love it.
I’m a Russian, living close to the Finnish border.
I’m absolutely not coming to attack Finland. You’re cool folks. Also, Helsinki rocks, and I really regret not coming to Tampere and Jyväskylä when borders were open. Oh, and food is first-class, too.
The only thing I’d say is: do something about Imatra. This place is depressing AF for a presumed tourist hotspot, especially through the fall and overcast.
I don’t think you’re the one who gets to make the choice about who Russia goes after or not…
True
