I’m trans and I didn’t vote for Kamala. Blue state, not like it even mattered. I have zero regrets about it on my part either. Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies. I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
I’m trans and wish you wouldn’t project your not caring onto the rest of us. It only serves to show that you probably haven’t experienced anything even remotely close to concentration camps or the related dangers. I did not happily do it with a smile on my face, but I voted for Kamala because I knew that this exact thing would happen if Trump were elected. It was incredibly obvious. Gaza is even more fucked, even more bombed, gestapo is roaming the streets, and we’re actively discussing our community potentially getting sent to concentration camps.
But you decided to not even try to prevent it. You decided that because Kamala wouldn’t completely stop the genocide in Gaza, that Gaza, immigrants, trans people, and minorities should all suffer even more.
I’m not sure how you still feel good about your protest vote (being in a blue state doesn’t excuse it, either. You do not vote in a vacuum, especially when you talk about it online). If we ever get to vote again, I really hope you make better choices and don’t get caught up on a single issue. You should be able to choose the lesser of two evils, because if Kamala were elected, we would be in a better position to make actual, valuable change for things like Gaza, trans rights, and progressive reform. Obviously, we can’t know how much better of a position, but I can guarantee we would at least not be discussing how we’re going to be sent to the camps.
I get that our community is hurting. Please don’t make it worse for us because you’re apathetic.
I completely agree on the idea of voting for Harris for harm reduction. But I’m genuinely curious why you think her being elected would put us in a better position to get progressive reform. She showed that she was completely unwilling to back down or change her stance to get elected. Once she had won the election, there really isn’t any reason for her to change her stance. Even the idea that she would try to gain popularity to be reelected seems unlikely. Because if we have already proven that we’ll vote for someone not because they have good policies, but because they have less bad policies. The next election would be the same. With her most likely running for reelection. And either Trump or some other far right extremist running against her, forcing a repeat of the hypothetical 2024 election where she won.
It’s a rather bleak cycle, that makes it frustrating when people constantly hammer against the voters for not holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evil, rather than the Democratic party in general for not listening to what their constituents want, and changing to a more populist progressive policy. I don’t agree with the protest voters, but I can at least empathize and understand where they’re coming from.
The really depressing thing is that even after losing because of it, we’re still not seeing much of a shift within the party. This should have been a wake up call for them. But it seems they still haven’t learned their lesson and seem more intent on using the Republican party as a cudgel to beat the population into voting for them, rather than actually adopting policies that make people want to vote for them.
hi, I ended up here in the US as a result of a right wing coup in my home country. I have had relatives with first hand experience of war, civil war, famine. it’s not something I take lightly which is why I am so appalled at the Democrats treating Palestinians like they’re expendible.
We don’t have a popular vote, due to how the system is arranged my vote hasn’t once mattered in decades of electoral participation. You’re kidding yourself about the influence of the fediverse if you think my comments had any impact.
I’m apathetic about voting, I’m actually extremely active organizing in my community against this shit. I find the people scolding about votes while doing fuck-all otherwise to be the ones making it worse.
It’s okay to be appalled, it’s normal. I’m appalled too. But because of our shitty, two party system, you are basically made to choose between the lesser of two evils in swing states. Choosing to not vote, or to vote for another party risks this exact outcome. While your vote in your state may not have had a direct impact (I’m willing to relent on that for now), what you say online (Lemmy or otherwise) or in person can convince someone in a swing state to also be apathetic, and that’s what hurts. It only has to affect one other person in a swing state, and then they’ll also spread their apathy to other voters in the state. It’s not a huge logical leap to consider.
When I say that you’re apathetic, I’m only talking about your voting habits. I know nothing else about you or what you do. I’m also not sure how trying to show how this behavior could result in our current situation is “making it worse”. I’m not trying to be insulting here, but if this apathy continues for the midterms (if they actually happen), it could very well convince some people to also not give a shit. I don’t want others in states where it really does matter to see your comments and think it’s all good to become entirely apathetic.
What really got to me was your comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps. Your relatives experiencing pain and trauma is one thing, but to experience concentration camps yourself is another thing entirely. You saying you don’t care about that could also be seen as you saying that you don’t care about the rest of the community being sent there, as well.
I’m not sure I buy the apathy contagion theory, I have a hard time believing anyone is actually swayed by me.
frankly the comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps was mostly being edgy to the guy doing the vote scolding like it even makes a difference now. maybe the Democrats would have been less bad overall, but after their past actions I have no reason to expect that Palestinians would be any better off under them.
my vote is a no-confidence vote in this shitty system and I have zero confidence that if supporting trans people becomes no longer politically expedient that Democrats wouldn’t cut us loose too.
People can be swayed by you without you ever knowing it, or even without them really even realizing it.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance, but the GOP literally campaigns on being pro-genocide, so we knew where they stood on the issue beforehand. And we got even more confirmation of that now.
Similarly, we knew that the GOP would do everything they could to villify and condemn trans people. At least the dems didn’t fully campaign on it. Since you’re in a blue state, I wonder if you have protections that trans people in red states do not? I sure do, in my blue state. The dems here didn’t just talk about improving trans rights and protecting us, they actually did it, and have continued to do so. They did the same thing for abortion rights. Of course, not without massive complaints from the local GOP.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance,
The democrats ran on a year+ of genocide, I have no confidence that they would suddenly have a change of heart afterwards.
The democrats in my state do in fact pass some protections, but do basically nothing about the fundamental economic and housing inequalities that make it almost impossible for red state trans people to safely relocate there. If you’re someone who can hustle enough to afford to live here it’s relatively safe, but despite all that we still have plenty of right wing democrats triangulating over things like womens sports.
Also Democrats have had their share of military interventions, and countries they destroyed. Their whole issue with Iraq at the time wasn’t that the invasion was wrong, but that they would run it better. The genocidal warmongering is established bipartisan consensus.
I’m trans and I very much care about not ending up in a concentration camp, please. (And yes I voted for Harris, but for the love of God can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?)
Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies.
It was never about being allies with the liberals. It was ALWAYS about choosing the best VIABLE choice for the working class, for minorities, for women, for our planet.
And y’all dropped the fucking ball.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference. But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t experienced real danger and doesn’t even comprehend the real danger their in.
If it means anything, I don’t give a fuck what happens to you specifically either. I give a fuck about the millions of innocent people who are now damned to death and suffering. And all of it could’ve been avoided if more leftists were actual fucking adults and observed the reality before them last November.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses. Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
It was never about being allies with the liberals.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses.
The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
Does the GOP have any that oppose the genocide (outside of the JQ like with MTG)? No.
Was Biden and Kamala gearing to mass deport and arrest anti-genocide activists and demonstrators? No.
Did Biden and Kamala give Netanyahu the greenlight to fully annex Palestine, and expand the war to include all of their neighbors, Iran and Yemen? No.
You have to be TRULY delusional to think the genocide is about the same now as it was under Biden.
You people couldn’t, for even a moment imagine it getting worse, even as the entire GOP was painting the picture for you in front of your face. Now its worse, exactly as everyone with a functional brain could for see.
Your lack of strategic vision and foresight, and let’s be real your completely hollow virtue signalling for faux support, is your problem that you’ve made other peoples’ problems.
Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
Just being a realist, action inspires action. Complete apathy towards the issue “because I live in a blue state” objectively had an echoing effect onto swing states with other potential blue voters. You aren’t escaping culpability with your cope.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
You’re the ones who refused to act when it mattered most and was most easy to do so.
I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
No one who opposes fascism should ever turn to you, or anyone else who participated in the virtue signal boycott, for alliance against fascism. You are untrustworthy and unreliable.
But hey, cope to protect your ego harder 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Again, I’m sure the feeling you got from virtue signalling is worth the end of any semblance of safety for you and everyone you love.
They’re not credible opposition.
Not you totally missing the point
Y’all ain’t credible allies, antifascists, or even anarchists for that matter
…does it bring you joy playing the blame game with a trans woman for her choices that had an extremely insignificant effect given her circumstances? It seems like it.
Your blame game accomplishes nothing besides putting that person on edge and letting others know it’s okay to also mock and berate people for having principles (in contrast to the Democratic Party). The Democratic Party is free to represent legitimate, common concerns that are apparently significant enough for their voting base to bully anybody who holds them. You are free to push the Democratic Party to represent common sentiment.
I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
Just. Accept. Kamala. Was. Responsible. For. Her. Loss.
Kamala was the person running - not the person you were responding to.
Biden shouldn’t have held on as long as he did. She should have never ran. There should’ve been a primary. Her policies were put up far too late. Her policies sucked. Kamala was leaving trans rights up to the states. Kamala was appealing to imaginary moderates. Kamala campaigned with Liz Cheney. Kamala was free to acknowledge the obvious genocide and campaign on stopping it.
Kamala’s vibes were off - and her 92% staff turnover during the first 3 years of her office puts things into perspective. What the actual fuck?
It’s unreal that people are still focused on blaming voters instead of encouraging their preferred party to actually do their best, among anything else. The election was almost a year ago now. Spend your energy elsewhere, especially when the person you are talking to is under attack.
Spamming clown emojis at a trans person is not productive. I want you to realize that attacking vulnerable people and people with principles is not helping anything. Your actions are not in the spirit of democracy. Votes are earned - they are not deserved or owned. Nobody should be forced into voting against the opposing candidate, they should be encouraged to vote for somebody who represents them.
I’m trans and I didn’t vote for Kamala. Blue state, not like it even mattered. I have zero regrets about it on my part either. Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it’s clear they were never allies. I don’t care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
I’m trans and wish you wouldn’t project your not caring onto the rest of us. It only serves to show that you probably haven’t experienced anything even remotely close to concentration camps or the related dangers. I did not happily do it with a smile on my face, but I voted for Kamala because I knew that this exact thing would happen if Trump were elected. It was incredibly obvious. Gaza is even more fucked, even more bombed, gestapo is roaming the streets, and we’re actively discussing our community potentially getting sent to concentration camps.
But you decided to not even try to prevent it. You decided that because Kamala wouldn’t completely stop the genocide in Gaza, that Gaza, immigrants, trans people, and minorities should all suffer even more.
I’m not sure how you still feel good about your protest vote (being in a blue state doesn’t excuse it, either. You do not vote in a vacuum, especially when you talk about it online). If we ever get to vote again, I really hope you make better choices and don’t get caught up on a single issue. You should be able to choose the lesser of two evils, because if Kamala were elected, we would be in a better position to make actual, valuable change for things like Gaza, trans rights, and progressive reform. Obviously, we can’t know how much better of a position, but I can guarantee we would at least not be discussing how we’re going to be sent to the camps.
I get that our community is hurting. Please don’t make it worse for us because you’re apathetic.
I completely agree on the idea of voting for Harris for harm reduction. But I’m genuinely curious why you think her being elected would put us in a better position to get progressive reform. She showed that she was completely unwilling to back down or change her stance to get elected. Once she had won the election, there really isn’t any reason for her to change her stance. Even the idea that she would try to gain popularity to be reelected seems unlikely. Because if we have already proven that we’ll vote for someone not because they have good policies, but because they have less bad policies. The next election would be the same. With her most likely running for reelection. And either Trump or some other far right extremist running against her, forcing a repeat of the hypothetical 2024 election where she won.
It’s a rather bleak cycle, that makes it frustrating when people constantly hammer against the voters for not holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evil, rather than the Democratic party in general for not listening to what their constituents want, and changing to a more populist progressive policy. I don’t agree with the protest voters, but I can at least empathize and understand where they’re coming from.
The really depressing thing is that even after losing because of it, we’re still not seeing much of a shift within the party. This should have been a wake up call for them. But it seems they still haven’t learned their lesson and seem more intent on using the Republican party as a cudgel to beat the population into voting for them, rather than actually adopting policies that make people want to vote for them.
hi, I ended up here in the US as a result of a right wing coup in my home country. I have had relatives with first hand experience of war, civil war, famine. it’s not something I take lightly which is why I am so appalled at the Democrats treating Palestinians like they’re expendible.
We don’t have a popular vote, due to how the system is arranged my vote hasn’t once mattered in decades of electoral participation. You’re kidding yourself about the influence of the fediverse if you think my comments had any impact.
I’m apathetic about voting, I’m actually extremely active organizing in my community against this shit. I find the people scolding about votes while doing fuck-all otherwise to be the ones making it worse.
It’s okay to be appalled, it’s normal. I’m appalled too. But because of our shitty, two party system, you are basically made to choose between the lesser of two evils in swing states. Choosing to not vote, or to vote for another party risks this exact outcome. While your vote in your state may not have had a direct impact (I’m willing to relent on that for now), what you say online (Lemmy or otherwise) or in person can convince someone in a swing state to also be apathetic, and that’s what hurts. It only has to affect one other person in a swing state, and then they’ll also spread their apathy to other voters in the state. It’s not a huge logical leap to consider.
When I say that you’re apathetic, I’m only talking about your voting habits. I know nothing else about you or what you do. I’m also not sure how trying to show how this behavior could result in our current situation is “making it worse”. I’m not trying to be insulting here, but if this apathy continues for the midterms (if they actually happen), it could very well convince some people to also not give a shit. I don’t want others in states where it really does matter to see your comments and think it’s all good to become entirely apathetic.
What really got to me was your comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps. Your relatives experiencing pain and trauma is one thing, but to experience concentration camps yourself is another thing entirely. You saying you don’t care about that could also be seen as you saying that you don’t care about the rest of the community being sent there, as well.
At the lack of support for genocide.
I’m not sure I buy the apathy contagion theory, I have a hard time believing anyone is actually swayed by me.
frankly the comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps was mostly being edgy to the guy doing the vote scolding like it even makes a difference now. maybe the Democrats would have been less bad overall, but after their past actions I have no reason to expect that Palestinians would be any better off under them.
my vote is a no-confidence vote in this shitty system and I have zero confidence that if supporting trans people becomes no longer politically expedient that Democrats wouldn’t cut us loose too.
People can be swayed by you without you ever knowing it, or even without them really even realizing it.
We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance, but the GOP literally campaigns on being pro-genocide, so we knew where they stood on the issue beforehand. And we got even more confirmation of that now.
Similarly, we knew that the GOP would do everything they could to villify and condemn trans people. At least the dems didn’t fully campaign on it. Since you’re in a blue state, I wonder if you have protections that trans people in red states do not? I sure do, in my blue state. The dems here didn’t just talk about improving trans rights and protecting us, they actually did it, and have continued to do so. They did the same thing for abortion rights. Of course, not without massive complaints from the local GOP.
The democrats ran on a year+ of genocide, I have no confidence that they would suddenly have a change of heart afterwards.
The democrats in my state do in fact pass some protections, but do basically nothing about the fundamental economic and housing inequalities that make it almost impossible for red state trans people to safely relocate there. If you’re someone who can hustle enough to afford to live here it’s relatively safe, but despite all that we still have plenty of right wing democrats triangulating over things like womens sports.
And republicans have run on decades+ of warmongering and genocide. Invading other countries directly.
I know which one I prefer.
I would prefer they both lose, tbh.
Also Democrats have had their share of military interventions, and countries they destroyed. Their whole issue with Iraq at the time wasn’t that the invasion was wrong, but that they would run it better. The genocidal warmongering is established bipartisan consensus.
I’m trans and I very much care about not ending up in a concentration camp, please. (And yes I voted for Harris, but for the love of God can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?)
liberals will do what they did last time they didn’t get 100% of everything they wanted. They’ll form a PAC to elect the republican candidate.
it would be nice if they actually decide to have primaries next time, I’m not holding out hope that elections are going to save us
It was never about being allies with the liberals. It was ALWAYS about choosing the best VIABLE choice for the working class, for minorities, for women, for our planet.
And y’all dropped the fucking ball.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference. But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t experienced real danger and doesn’t even comprehend the real danger their in.
If it means anything, I don’t give a fuck what happens to you specifically either. I give a fuck about the millions of innocent people who are now damned to death and suffering. And all of it could’ve been avoided if more leftists were actual fucking adults and observed the reality before them last November.
It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the ‘echoing effect’ of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses. Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
You’re the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
They’re not credible opposition.
The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
Does the GOP have any that oppose the genocide (outside of the JQ like with MTG)? No.
Was Biden and Kamala gearing to mass deport and arrest anti-genocide activists and demonstrators? No.
Did Biden and Kamala give Netanyahu the greenlight to fully annex Palestine, and expand the war to include all of their neighbors, Iran and Yemen? No.
You have to be TRULY delusional to think the genocide is about the same now as it was under Biden.
You people couldn’t, for even a moment imagine it getting worse, even as the entire GOP was painting the picture for you in front of your face. Now its worse, exactly as everyone with a functional brain could for see.
Your lack of strategic vision and foresight, and let’s be real your completely hollow virtue signalling for faux support, is your problem that you’ve made other peoples’ problems.
Just being a realist, action inspires action. Complete apathy towards the issue “because I live in a blue state” objectively had an echoing effect onto swing states with other potential blue voters. You aren’t escaping culpability with your cope.
You’re the ones who refused to act when it mattered most and was most easy to do so.
I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
No one who opposes fascism should ever turn to you, or anyone else who participated in the virtue signal boycott, for alliance against fascism. You are untrustworthy and unreliable.
But hey, cope to protect your ego harder 🤡🤡🤡🤡 Again, I’m sure the feeling you got from virtue signalling is worth the end of any semblance of safety for you and everyone you love.
Not you totally missing the point
Y’all ain’t credible allies, antifascists, or even anarchists for that matter
They didn’t protect those incumbents.
They didn’t demolish the constitution and start deporting and jailing them either.
Only one party is doing that to people, and its also the only party that’s threatening our democracy.
Wanted to primary out the pro-genocide Dems? Me too. Now we likely can’t because it won’t matter when Trump deploys the Nat Guard on election day.
Lol no you didn’t.
…does it bring you joy playing the blame game with a trans woman for her choices that had an extremely insignificant effect given her circumstances? It seems like it.
Your blame game accomplishes nothing besides putting that person on edge and letting others know it’s okay to also mock and berate people for having principles (in contrast to the Democratic Party). The Democratic Party is free to represent legitimate, common concerns that are apparently significant enough for their voting base to bully anybody who holds them. You are free to push the Democratic Party to represent common sentiment.
Just. Accept. Kamala. Was. Responsible. For. Her. Loss.
Kamala was the person running - not the person you were responding to.
Biden shouldn’t have held on as long as he did. She should have never ran. There should’ve been a primary. Her policies were put up far too late. Her policies sucked. Kamala was leaving trans rights up to the states. Kamala was appealing to imaginary moderates. Kamala campaigned with Liz Cheney. Kamala was free to acknowledge the obvious genocide and campaign on stopping it.
Kamala’s vibes were off - and her 92% staff turnover during the first 3 years of her office puts things into perspective. What the actual fuck?
It’s unreal that people are still focused on blaming voters instead of encouraging their preferred party to actually do their best, among anything else. The election was almost a year ago now. Spend your energy elsewhere, especially when the person you are talking to is under attack.
Spamming clown emojis at a trans person is not productive. I want you to realize that attacking vulnerable people and people with principles is not helping anything. Your actions are not in the spirit of democracy. Votes are earned - they are not deserved or owned. Nobody should be forced into voting against the opposing candidate, they should be encouraged to vote for somebody who represents them.
Absolute alpha tough guy here
I’m none of those descriptors, I just didnt vote for the genocidal shitheads
yeah but your point of view doesn’t count because it doesn’t fit within their narrow, convenient narrative.