Skilled yes, but apparently concealing a mental health issue. This is a huge cultural issue in aviation. Nobody wants to lose their job, so you just bury it.
There’s absolutely no proof that these Pilots were suicidal. I think speculation of such is disrespectful until further evidence shows such things such as in the case of MH 370 which is highly speculated with a lot of evidence to be a pilot suicide.
I’m not the person you replied to and I’m not familiar with India’s certificate process, but the FAA is a stickler about mental health - even for a PPL on a class 3. It doesn’t matter if you’re getting treatment or not. The fact that you have any history of mental illness is huge. It seems really fucking stupid to me, especially if you are getting help.
I hope to god indias certificate procedures aren’t as ridiculous as the FAA
All evidence points to a deliberate toggling of the fuel cutoff switches, and whoever did it then denied they did anything on CVR. It’s not an issue with the plane itself, this is either someone deliberately crashing the plane or someone absentmindedly crashing the plane.
There are redundant systems on modern planes that can handle multiple failures. If they’re saying it’s fuel related my guess is dirty jet fuel. It would explain a stuck fuel valve. There’s lots of ground crew checks before flight, and one is checking the fuel tanks for contamination. Just a speculation.
These switches are evidently monitored by the aircraft’s systems, as the investigators seem to know for a fact when these switches were moved. This is not a “failure”, unless the switch moved by itself.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to “I reckon” this, when we know why the engines stopped.
So I know there has to be a reason why these switches are vitally important but doesn’t it seem weird that you can take a catastrophic action like turning the fuel supply off when you’re in mid-takeoff? If you try and put a modern car in reverse at 65 MPH, the car is like “haha no” and ignores you.
The fuel switches were “designed to be intentionally moved,” according to CNN safety analyst David Soucie, who said cases in which all fuel switches were turned off accidentally are “extremely rare.”
“Throughout the years, those switches have been improved to make sure that they cannot be accidentally moved and that they’re not automatic. They don’t move themselves in any manner,” Soucie said on Friday.
And the photo of the throttle (middle) and fuel cutoff switches (bottom):
There’s just one-level-deeper of questions I’d have here. How were the switches designed such that they prevented accidental activation? Because it looks like they just get simply flipped down. Could it be pull-out-and-down? Or maybe there’s a lot of resistance during the switch action?
How were the switches designed such that they prevented accidental activation? Because it looks like they just get simply flipped down. Could it be pull-out-and-down? Or maybe there’s a lot of resistance during the switch action?
The lever-lock fuel switches are designed to prevent accidental activation - they must be pulled up to unlock before flipping, a safety feature dating back to the 1950s. This isn’t a new or weird design. It’s essentially the standard used in basically every plane because it works.
“It would be almost impossible to pull both switches with a single movement of one hand, and this makes accidental deployment unlikely,” a Canada-based air accidents investigator, who wanted to remain unnamed, told the BBC.
If one pilot tries to ram it into the ground, or just throttles back, the other pilot can fight them for the controls and possibly prevent a crash. When those switches are flipped the engines almost immediately flame out. Even if the other pilot quickly flips them back and prevents the first pilot from doing anything else, it takes time for the engines to automatically relight and spool back up. Done right around liftoff, which seems to be the case from the RAT deployment, there might not be anything the other pilot can do no matter how fast they act.
Edit: According to the flight data recorder, the cutoff switches were flipped 3 seconds after takeoff, one was flipped back on 10 seconds later, the other flipped back 4 seconds after that, and the recording ended 15 seconds later.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/11/india/air-india-crash-report-intl-latam
This article has a photo of the switches in question, and goes into more detail about how they work.
Apparently they need to be pulled to change their orientation, I’m wondering if the mechanism simply wore out?
Not likely. These things are checked before every flight.
Dude. It’s Air India.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/multiple-failures-low-fuel-zero-visibility-the-inside-story-of-air-india-flight-101-1922754
Never take Air India.
If that does not take away from the fact that these Pilots were very well skilled.
If the company is at fault it’s due to over scheduling since preliminary report indicates no mechanical failures.
It’s not the skills I’m concerned about
Skilled yes, but apparently concealing a mental health issue. This is a huge cultural issue in aviation. Nobody wants to lose their job, so you just bury it.
There’s absolutely no proof that these Pilots were suicidal. I think speculation of such is disrespectful until further evidence shows such things such as in the case of MH 370 which is highly speculated with a lot of evidence to be a pilot suicide.
I’m not the person you replied to and I’m not familiar with India’s certificate process, but the FAA is a stickler about mental health - even for a PPL on a class 3. It doesn’t matter if you’re getting treatment or not. The fact that you have any history of mental illness is huge. It seems really fucking stupid to me, especially if you are getting help.
I hope to god indias certificate procedures aren’t as ridiculous as the FAA
All evidence points to a deliberate toggling of the fuel cutoff switches, and whoever did it then denied they did anything on CVR. It’s not an issue with the plane itself, this is either someone deliberately crashing the plane or someone absentmindedly crashing the plane.
Pretty sure if you want to off yourself you’d do it differently
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
There are redundant systems on modern planes that can handle multiple failures. If they’re saying it’s fuel related my guess is dirty jet fuel. It would explain a stuck fuel valve. There’s lots of ground crew checks before flight, and one is checking the fuel tanks for contamination. Just a speculation.
From the article:
These switches are evidently monitored by the aircraft’s systems, as the investigators seem to know for a fact when these switches were moved. This is not a “failure”, unless the switch moved by itself.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to “I reckon” this, when we know why the engines stopped.
So I know there has to be a reason why these switches are vitally important but doesn’t it seem weird that you can take a catastrophic action like turning the fuel supply off when you’re in mid-takeoff? If you try and put a modern car in reverse at 65 MPH, the car is like “haha no” and ignores you.
From the article…
And the photo of the throttle (middle) and fuel cutoff switches (bottom):
https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/c-gettyimages-951922648-20250711223914009.jpg?q=w_1160%2Cc_fill%2Ff_webp
There’s just one-level-deeper of questions I’d have here. How were the switches designed such that they prevented accidental activation? Because it looks like they just get simply flipped down. Could it be pull-out-and-down? Or maybe there’s a lot of resistance during the switch action?
They have metal detents; you have to pull the lever out, then push it down against a reasonably heavy spring.
These had to be very deliberately moved to the cutoff position.
The lever-lock fuel switches are designed to prevent accidental activation - they must be pulled up to unlock before flipping, a safety feature dating back to the 1950s. This isn’t a new or weird design. It’s essentially the standard used in basically every plane because it works.
“It would be almost impossible to pull both switches with a single movement of one hand, and this makes accidental deployment unlikely,” a Canada-based air accidents investigator, who wanted to remain unnamed, told the BBC.
You can also just throttle back, which would have the same effect.
Yeah and of course, you can also just ram the thing into the ground. I’d hate to think this was a deliberate act, but it’s certainly possible.
If one pilot tries to ram it into the ground, or just throttles back, the other pilot can fight them for the controls and possibly prevent a crash. When those switches are flipped the engines almost immediately flame out. Even if the other pilot quickly flips them back and prevents the first pilot from doing anything else, it takes time for the engines to automatically relight and spool back up. Done right around liftoff, which seems to be the case from the RAT deployment, there might not be anything the other pilot can do no matter how fast they act.
Edit: According to the flight data recorder, the cutoff switches were flipped 3 seconds after takeoff, one was flipped back on 10 seconds later, the other flipped back 4 seconds after that, and the recording ended 15 seconds later.