There’s absolutely no proof that these Pilots were suicidal. I think speculation of such is disrespectful until further evidence shows such things such as in the case of MH 370 which is highly speculated with a lot of evidence to be a pilot suicide.
I’m not the person you replied to and I’m not familiar with India’s certificate process, but the FAA is a stickler about mental health - even for a PPL on a class 3. It doesn’t matter if you’re getting treatment or not. The fact that you have any history of mental illness is huge. It seems really fucking stupid to me, especially if you are getting help.
I hope to god indias certificate procedures aren’t as ridiculous as the FAA
Unfortunately I have bad news for you A lot of the time these countries are worse when it comes to Mental Health in the FAA.
I try to get a simple recreational pilot license that they got very upset with my history of anxiety. I’d have to get reevaluated every 6 months by a state psychologist on my own dime continue to fly.
Still there there’s not any evidence indicating any sort of mental health history. Like the pilot of MH370 supposedly lost all of his money and a bunch of bad trades. Not only that they found the exact flight the plane seems to have taken on the dude’s personal simulator.
Before we judge this to be a suicide let’s at least wait to hear about the Pilot’s personal lives and what conditions they were in.
I do get where so many people are coming from in this but it is so disrespectful to the pilots and their families to just immediately assume that this is a suicide when there’s not even good speculative evidence for it
All evidence points to a deliberate toggling of the fuel cutoff switches, and whoever did it then denied they did anything on CVR. It’s not an issue with the plane itself, this is either someone deliberately crashing the plane or someone absentmindedly crashing the plane.
You’re right, I can’t say the motive. The evidence points to an intentional cutoff by one of the pilots, however. Maybe it’s an accident, maybe it’s deliberate.
It has nothing to do with their race so fuck off with the racism accusation. I never said a single thing regarding their race or culture, so don’t accuse me of such things.
This reeks the same way the Ethiopian flight 302 did. A ton of people initially believed that the pilots committed suicide until it was revealed that there was a misbehaving system that wasn’t properly recorded on the black boxes.
What they have right now is that the data on the black boxes Doesn’t indicate a mechanical failure. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
As you pointed out it could be fatigue. I talked with a pilot that’s the one a 787. He mentioned the detent system in the fuel cutoff valve can weaken over time causing them to be easily tripped.
We have no idea what the scheduling of these people like it could also be due to fatigue which would mean they are not at fault.
I called you out on this comment being racist because it feels racist to accuse these Indian Pilots of committing suicide when they have such extensive records, the 787 has already had several whistleblowers come out on it and it’s had to be grounded for other issues, it’s made by Boeing who seems to suck at making planes, There is absolutely no proof a suicidal intention from their personal life or professional life.
To keep claiming this is a pilot suicide Is extraordinarily disrespectful To the pilots who lost their lives in this crash.
When these type of crashes happen in the United States we don’t immediately turn around and claim pilot suicide. We wait and see the way we’re supposed to instead of speculating.
If you don’t want to get called out for racism don’t act racist.
So the detent was not strong enough to hold the two cutoff switches through some bumps, but it was strong enough to hold them during the crash? That makes absolutely no sense to me. The forces experienced during the crash are significantly more severe than any kind of turbulence they’d experience during climb out.
Sorry dude, I don’t buy it. This is either one of the worst aviation mistakes ever made or a deliberate action. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor did I ever imply that. Also, both pilots had 0 hours of flying in the previous 24 hours, so I don’t think fatigue of the mechanical or physiological kind, are at play here.
FAA issued Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) No. NM-18-33 on December 17, 2018, regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature
The report directly calls this out and says that it could be a contributing factor.
Okay so fatigue may not be an issue but you have no clue if there are other issues at play here.
The report mentions no indication of pilot suicide. There is no evidence or reporting or comments from anywhere indicating that these Pilots had issues.
There is some evidence that Captain may have had a legitimate medical issue during takeoff which could have resulted in this crash however that is not the same as intentionally making mistake or attempting suicide.
If these were American Pilots you would not be so insistent on this being suicide.
See, there you go again. Don’t assume how I would judge American pilots either, I have no dog in this fight, and if an American pilot made a grave mistake or committed suicide that’s just as bad. The issue I see clouding your vision, as well as many other Indians, is nationalism. You need to let go of your national pride and take an objective look at this, I would say the exact same thing if it was a pilot from the United States. I don’t care what their motives are or how it reflects on a certain carrier from any country, it’s just what seems most plausible given all available evidence.
You’re the only one bringing race and nationality into this conversation.
I just find your characterization of these Pilots super disrespectful Which is my primary reason for objecting.
There’s a million other explanations other than suicide.
Maybe you should read something other than all Rags whipping everybody up and thinking it’s a pilot suicide and wait and see to what the NTSB actually has to say about this crash since this was a mandated report by ICAO.
Many people thought Air France flight 447 was caused my pilot suicide but it turned out to be caused by a massive amount of confusion through Frozen pito tubes.
Unless you work for the FAA, NHSTA, Boeing, or relevant Indian equivalents, I’m going to have to ask you to stop speculating.
If it’s spring based, and one side failed, it’s possible that next to no force will flip it to one side, but it takes the expected amount of force to move it in the other direction.
These determinations always require more knowledge than is publicly available.
I’d like to remind you Air India has a notorious record of bad maintenance in the case of AI101 in 2018. I’d like to further point out that they landed that plane and demonstrated that Air India has hired very skilled pilots.
It doesn’t seem like you’re familiar with the sequence of events in the crash.
The switches moved from run to cut off - who knows why. I believe the pilots did it, you believe it’s the detents.
The pilots then moved them from cutoff to run.
The switches stayed in run throughout the entire crash sequence. If the detents were bad before, why would they not be bad again here?
If the detent failed when they moved from run to cutoff during climb out, it would have also failed during the crash sequence, when significantly higher forces were experienced.
I’ll keep speculating until the final report is out.
I don’t believe it’s the detents. I don’t have an opinion because I’m not speculating. I’m adding that based on the hardware it’s possible that the exact statement you made is wrong. I’m not familiar with the parts list nor am I type rated to fly that particular plane.
There’s absolutely no proof that these Pilots were suicidal. I think speculation of such is disrespectful until further evidence shows such things such as in the case of MH 370 which is highly speculated with a lot of evidence to be a pilot suicide.
I’m not the person you replied to and I’m not familiar with India’s certificate process, but the FAA is a stickler about mental health - even for a PPL on a class 3. It doesn’t matter if you’re getting treatment or not. The fact that you have any history of mental illness is huge. It seems really fucking stupid to me, especially if you are getting help.
I hope to god indias certificate procedures aren’t as ridiculous as the FAA
Unfortunately I have bad news for you A lot of the time these countries are worse when it comes to Mental Health in the FAA.
I try to get a simple recreational pilot license that they got very upset with my history of anxiety. I’d have to get reevaluated every 6 months by a state psychologist on my own dime continue to fly.
Still there there’s not any evidence indicating any sort of mental health history. Like the pilot of MH370 supposedly lost all of his money and a bunch of bad trades. Not only that they found the exact flight the plane seems to have taken on the dude’s personal simulator.
Before we judge this to be a suicide let’s at least wait to hear about the Pilot’s personal lives and what conditions they were in.
I do get where so many people are coming from in this but it is so disrespectful to the pilots and their families to just immediately assume that this is a suicide when there’s not even good speculative evidence for it
I am also declining to speculate - just hoping to add some context about mental health and the FAA.
Oh it’s never a bad thing to have context.
I do appreciate the additional info friend
All evidence points to a deliberate toggling of the fuel cutoff switches, and whoever did it then denied they did anything on CVR. It’s not an issue with the plane itself, this is either someone deliberately crashing the plane or someone absentmindedly crashing the plane.
Really, there’s evidence that the switch was purposely flipped to commit suicide?
I didn’t see that in the report.
Tell you what.
Why don’t you take this as an opportunity to prove to everyone that you’re not baselessly slandering these pilots.
Support this opinion with a quote from some sort of evidence.
Because otherwise you look like a racist dick.
You’re right, I can’t say the motive. The evidence points to an intentional cutoff by one of the pilots, however. Maybe it’s an accident, maybe it’s deliberate.
It has nothing to do with their race so fuck off with the racism accusation. I never said a single thing regarding their race or culture, so don’t accuse me of such things.
This reeks the same way the Ethiopian flight 302 did. A ton of people initially believed that the pilots committed suicide until it was revealed that there was a misbehaving system that wasn’t properly recorded on the black boxes.
What they have right now is that the data on the black boxes Doesn’t indicate a mechanical failure. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
As you pointed out it could be fatigue. I talked with a pilot that’s the one a 787. He mentioned the detent system in the fuel cutoff valve can weaken over time causing them to be easily tripped.
We have no idea what the scheduling of these people like it could also be due to fatigue which would mean they are not at fault.
I called you out on this comment being racist because it feels racist to accuse these Indian Pilots of committing suicide when they have such extensive records, the 787 has already had several whistleblowers come out on it and it’s had to be grounded for other issues, it’s made by Boeing who seems to suck at making planes, There is absolutely no proof a suicidal intention from their personal life or professional life.
To keep claiming this is a pilot suicide Is extraordinarily disrespectful To the pilots who lost their lives in this crash.
When these type of crashes happen in the United States we don’t immediately turn around and claim pilot suicide. We wait and see the way we’re supposed to instead of speculating.
If you don’t want to get called out for racism don’t act racist.
So the detent was not strong enough to hold the two cutoff switches through some bumps, but it was strong enough to hold them during the crash? That makes absolutely no sense to me. The forces experienced during the crash are significantly more severe than any kind of turbulence they’d experience during climb out.
Sorry dude, I don’t buy it. This is either one of the worst aviation mistakes ever made or a deliberate action. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor did I ever imply that. Also, both pilots had 0 hours of flying in the previous 24 hours, so I don’t think fatigue of the mechanical or physiological kind, are at play here.
Wow those are some wild assumptions.
The report directly calls this out and says that it could be a contributing factor.
Okay so fatigue may not be an issue but you have no clue if there are other issues at play here.
The report mentions no indication of pilot suicide. There is no evidence or reporting or comments from anywhere indicating that these Pilots had issues.
There is some evidence that Captain may have had a legitimate medical issue during takeoff which could have resulted in this crash however that is not the same as intentionally making mistake or attempting suicide.
If these were American Pilots you would not be so insistent on this being suicide.
See, there you go again. Don’t assume how I would judge American pilots either, I have no dog in this fight, and if an American pilot made a grave mistake or committed suicide that’s just as bad. The issue I see clouding your vision, as well as many other Indians, is nationalism. You need to let go of your national pride and take an objective look at this, I would say the exact same thing if it was a pilot from the United States. I don’t care what their motives are or how it reflects on a certain carrier from any country, it’s just what seems most plausible given all available evidence.
You’re the only one bringing race and nationality into this conversation.
I’m American dipshit.
I just find your characterization of these Pilots super disrespectful Which is my primary reason for objecting.
There’s a million other explanations other than suicide.
Maybe you should read something other than all Rags whipping everybody up and thinking it’s a pilot suicide and wait and see to what the NTSB actually has to say about this crash since this was a mandated report by ICAO.
Many people thought Air France flight 447 was caused my pilot suicide but it turned out to be caused by a massive amount of confusion through Frozen pito tubes.
It’s entirely too early to be this speculative.
Unless you work for the FAA, NHSTA, Boeing, or relevant Indian equivalents, I’m going to have to ask you to stop speculating.
If it’s spring based, and one side failed, it’s possible that next to no force will flip it to one side, but it takes the expected amount of force to move it in the other direction.
These determinations always require more knowledge than is publicly available.
I’d like to remind you Air India has a notorious record of bad maintenance in the case of AI101 in 2018. I’d like to further point out that they landed that plane and demonstrated that Air India has hired very skilled pilots.
It doesn’t seem like you’re familiar with the sequence of events in the crash.
The switches moved from run to cut off - who knows why. I believe the pilots did it, you believe it’s the detents.
The pilots then moved them from cutoff to run.
The switches stayed in run throughout the entire crash sequence. If the detents were bad before, why would they not be bad again here?
If the detent failed when they moved from run to cutoff during climb out, it would have also failed during the crash sequence, when significantly higher forces were experienced.
I’ll keep speculating until the final report is out.
I don’t believe it’s the detents. I don’t have an opinion because I’m not speculating. I’m adding that based on the hardware it’s possible that the exact statement you made is wrong. I’m not familiar with the parts list nor am I type rated to fly that particular plane.