Wow little snowflake children can’t handle [checks notes] being abducted by someone with a gun???
I despise hazing and it being touted as a bonding experience or character building annoys me to no end.
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or the sort of disturbing blood sacrifice type shit they do in the dormitories of prestigious western tertiary education institutions
Going bowling doesn’t take any level of commitment from the participant though - it’s just a nice thing to do - they’d do that anyway. The bonding part comes from doing something unpleasant to show commitment to the group. I’m not saying the weird shit that it has developed into on campuses is a good thing, that’s way too far. But I was a member of a running club and to be a full member you had to run on a summer Saturday across a set route up and down hills repeatedly just the hardship and over difficult terrain in the heat of the day - it was a long and deeply unpleasant run. But then all the new runners and all the existing members have a big bbq and eat food and drink cold beers together. The old timers congratulate you on your performance and reminisce about when they did it - perhaps it was a heatwave back in ‘92 or there was flooding or whatever. Everyone winces together when they see the size of that guys blisters etc. and just like that you’re bonded. You’ve all had a shared experience of a trial you completed to be part of the group. Hazing like that is a really good experience.
I think the disconnect here is that what you’re describing is a person who signed up for checks notes a running club going on a difficult run. There’s a clear disconnect between something like that and the kind of hazing people usually talk about, where the new members are harmed or humiliated by the rest of the group, and then go on to perpetuate that harm/humiliation to the next generation.
The really dangerous part of hazing is the ratchet effect. Hazing rituals like the ones I’m describing never get easier, they only get more harmful/humiliating with each successive generation, until you end up with shit like this. The only way to stop it is for a bigger outside organization to step in, set limits and enforce them. For example, modern military people will talk shit about how boot camp isn’t as hard as it used to be, but that’s because guys in the 80s were getting PTSD and permanent physical injuries from the shit the Vietnam vets were doing to them and the government had to put a stop to it.
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Thank you sir, may I have another!
Unfortunately, the science indicates that it actually is effective at creating bonds. That doesn’t mean that it’s okay, mind you, just that it’s effective–and I suspect there’s absolutely such a thing as going too far for even that to hold true.
I’ll need to see this. Not that I don’t trust you but I need to see the science tbh.
Well, looking into it further, there seems to be more recent research (from 2022) that contradicts what I recall reading sometime prior to that (somewhere around 2010 or so, iirc).
It seems like a lot comes down to definitions, too–my own college fraternity was a no-hazing organization, but I do recall seeing some stuff in the mandatory online class nationals made us take that said certain things we did counted as hazing (giving initiates nicknames, for one, and anything involving alcohol at all for another, even if non-alcoholic options were made available), so where one draws the line is likely to affect the results of any effort to study the effects.
I think it probably also depends on what the hazing entails - making the newbys complete some miserable gruelling physical activity followed by everyone getting drunk together - probably pretty damn good bonding. The new people have done something unpleasant and demonstrated a level of commitment to the cause, and then everyone has cut loose together showing some vulnerability (from intoxication) within each others company - that really will bond people.
If your hazing is forcing new people to get really drunk and then sexual abusing them (which is what a lot of American college hazings seem to be)- I don’t think that’s good (on any level). It may have some bonding affect for the perpetrators but for the victims? I’m not sure. Maybe when they turn perpetrators the following year they would get a delayed bonding affect? Either way that’s not good.
