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I’m ready to get dunked on but here we go
spoiler
I’m engaging in speculative trading (meaning: buying and holding stocks for 3-5 years) and betting on the rise of a multipolar world. In practice this mean for me: I pick a stock in the Chinese market that I think will eventually outperform a western company (e.g. EV, semiconductor, fusion, renewables, etc. - actually I picked a company that’s on the US blacklist) and buy an amount where I’m ready to lose the money (I’m aware of the privilege) and just hold it. I follow the news mega so I get a good dose of financial press to keep up.
Marxist theory can give you insights on how to play the capitalist game. If you read it like a psychopath.
I joke that Capitalists would get the most value (figuratively and literally) from Marx, but are ideologically allergic to the reading.
I’ve seen quite a few statements from big Wall St. people who have clearly read Marx
I think a lot more capitalists understand Marxist theory than most would think
Matt Bruenig has a great and short tutorial on personal finance and investing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efr2UORgO2w
the graphic at 17:30 summarizes the hierarchy of savings (1. Emergency fund 2. employer-matched retirement 3. high-interest debt 4. other tax-advantage accounts 5. low-interest debt 6. taxable brokerage account) - he notes that he and most others will never make it to 6.
The graphic at 31:00 summarizes common pitfalls to avoid, unless you have a deep passion. 1. individual stocks 2. crypto 3. house flipping/renting (don’t be landlord … for financial reasons!) 4. expensive homes 5. private k-12 education
I unironically love federation
Your post is clearly in good faith so I won’t shit post or try to dunk, just so you know this instance is full of tankies and anarchists, investing is antithetical to our beliefs and any post about investing you see from this community is mocking the whole concept
investing is antithetical to our beliefs
I don’t believe the Proletariat having a 401k and/or a Roth IRA in order to survive retirement is antithetical to leftist belief, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise. Even Marx speculated in the stock market. Ultimately, Leftists refusing to invest will do nothing at all to further expedite the end of Imperialism and eventually Capitalism, all it will create is homeless leftist seniors (if America lasts that long).
For me the difference is between survival and personal gain, those funds are a forced compromise
So then, where is the barrier? Is this an argument based in Moralism, or Materialism? The Proletariat can and must do whatever it can to improve its own conditions, and in the absence of a state that provides for it, this must be done via the Market.
I agree that Workers, especially Marxists, should try to reduce their harmful footprints as much as possible. Boycott union busters and supporters of genocide. However, when it comes to retirement savings, there exist no ethical ways to move forward, except to live entirely off the grid and refuse to use banking systems.
Unfortunately, this can lead to reactionary behavior, a turning back of the clock to an earlier stage of Capitalism. That’s why homesteading has a huge fascism problem.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I don’t think it’s productive to say investing is antithetical to leftism, considering the context. That would be like saying purchasing video games is antithetical to leftism, as they are for personal enjoyment yet support Capitalists. I try to think in terms of Dialectics and what materially benefits the proletariat, and ultimately if it becomes a matter of purity testing I believe we lose sight of the goals of Communism.
I dunno, this became a bit of a ramble. I’ll end this with a fun quote:
“The moment anyone started to talk to Marx about morality, he would roar with laughter.”
I guess I haven’t been clear enough in this thread, I completely agree with you
Retirement funds are an example of unavoidable participation in capitalism, but that doesn’t mean that it’s compatible with a socialist world view
Investing is and will always be antithetical to the immortal science, the goal is to make gains from other people’s work
I have money on pension and insurance funds that use all available investment vehicles to maximize their profits, I have to compromise my values to get a (significant) portion of my produced value back because some libs thought that everyone should be an investor instead of feeding and housing old people as a right
Investing is and will always be antithetical to the immortal science, the goal is to make gains from other people’s work
Yes, in principle, however in the context of the western proletariat who must engage with the market to ensure their own existence, I do not consider it anti-leftist to give investment advice. Only if it supports landlordism or business ownership outright.
I have money on pension and insurance funds that use all available investment vehicles to maximize their profits, I have to compromise my values to get a (significant) portion of my produced value back because some libs thought that everyone should be an investor instead of feeding and housing old people as a right
I don’t believe this structure is because of Liberal ideas, but an attempt by Capitalists to tie Workers’ futures to the same mechanism that enriches Capitalists, therefore reducing revolutionary pressure. This is a consequence of Imperialism, it’s an effort to turn the Proletariat into complicit Labor Aristocracy.
investing is antithetical to our beliefs
