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Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: September 9th, 2023

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  • Good, then we both agree the source doesn’t support the “hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland” claim.

    Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my “murdered Poles” to your “in Poland”, I can only say that’s just childish. Do you think it’s better if they died in Russia?

    No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism.

    Hexbear incoming. “They helped defeat the nazis so the bottom line is we can’t criticize them”.

    Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead


  • That’s a book on migrations and deportations, not a book on casualties, it doesn’t seem to support a claim of “hundreds of thousands murdered” which you made in your previous comment, could you please elaborate?

    Again, you’re conflating murdered with deported

    It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well, for Poland and many other conflicts.

    Great, please name one of them that doesn’t imply complete occupation of Poland by Nazis

    I just can’t envision an alternative reality

    Well, I think that’s the main issue here. Siding with the nazis, attacking Poland in the rear when they were fighting the nazis, committing horrible crimes against the Polish population and POWs … You really, really cannot imagine not having to do even one of those


  • Well I’m not sure if that’s from the book you suggested, but if it is I must say the language is a tad bit romanticized lol. Might I suggest better sources

    I don’t know if the other three chapters you suggested get any better but in your quote it only argues that collaborating with the nazis was “their only option” if you first agree to start from the premise that they *checks notes* “just had to claim those territories” to which they “had a far better right”

    Imagine if the UK or the US had allied with the nazis and attacked Western Europe in the back, out of fear and begging them for spoils… (as some politicians argued, I might add)?




  • please tell me what was the alternative to Soviet occupation in Eastern Poland, once Poland rejected a mutual defense agreement against Nazis with the Soviets

    There were several alternatives, actually. But most of them would start with Russia not attacking them in the rear after they moved their troops west to fight off the nazis

    can you provide a source for that? I know about the Katyn massacre and about other events in which Nazi collaborators/Bourgeois Polish nationalists were killed (as well as some innocent civilians), but AFAIK the numbers don’t go that high

    Yeah sure, here’s one that estimates between 250k and 1.5m (but which I believe also includes post-war)

    But I presume that if you’re the type that already convinced themselves that all these murdered Poles “must have deserved it” in one way or another, then that number probably couldn’t be high enough anyway


  • Not to defend the flawed comparison with Trump’s treason, but that’s a very useless take on the M-R pact…

    Stalin could have

    • not promised the nazis to attack the Poles from the rear
    • not attacked the Poles from the rear
    • not murdered hundreds of thousands of Poles after high-fiving the nazis after having succesfully attacked the Poles from the rear

    I think all of these alternatives would have been more desirable than, well, actively teaming up with the nazis

    edit: list layout





  • Keeping it as research seems it would greatly reduce its availability, and if it causes people to suffer or die, that’s not something that can be taken back, unlike stopping hormone treatment or puberty blockers seems to be. That’s the part that concerns me.

    Well I can certainly recommend reading the interview then. One of the things mentioned is that she considers, after her research, this hormone treatment as having irreversible effects.

    That’s something I always see people dancing around, sometimes saying ‘mostly’ reversible or something… Being (‘mostly’) irreversible has an enormous ethical impact. She also mentions having taken into consideration the long term psychological effects but that the research on that just isn’t strong enough to give a clear-cut advice



  • Well her position doesn’t seem to be that she wants to eliminate it at all. She says the evidence is too weak for a general green light. She supports it being offered but as research:

    There are young people who absolutely benefit from a medical pathway, and we need to make sure that those young people have access — under a research protocol, because we need to improve the research — but not assume that that’s the right pathway for everyone.

    Also:

    I think there is an appreciation that we are not about closing down health care for children. But there is fearfulness — about health care being shut down, and also about the report being weaponized to suggest that trans people don’t exist. And that’s really disappointing to me that that happens, because that’s absolutely not what we’re saying.