So the use of protests to establish broad community support for a cause won’t make a difference…? That sure seems to contradict every historical example, but you do you.

I think we can all say yes to that.

“It’s inconvenient to my argument so I’m declaring it doesn’t matter”

It’s charitable of you to assume the jews would be allowed on the bus at all. If history is anything to go by, the closest they’ll get is being ground up and used to grit the roads when it gets icy.

you make that government’s life a living hell

How, though. It’s all well and good to want a revolution, but have you ever given any thought to the process of implementing one? Talk is cheap, so call for the violent overthrow of the sitting government all you want! But until you have an idea of how to actually implement all this violent revolution you’re calling for (“how do you coordinate” is one example of something you actually need an answer to) you’re no different from some /pol/ edgelord wanking off to the romantic idea of what a great revolutionary hero they’d make. Denigrating protests is one thing, but they’re the best tool for developing broad community support for your cause.

Seriously, what better solution do you have? Because it’s kinda a dick move to keep such a revolutionary (haha) concept a secret.

That’s not what they’d do, that’s just a nebulous opinion on how change is realized. How would they get support to start a revolution, for example. I’m damn curious what the answer is besides “start with large demonstrations to rally public support for the cause” since that’s how it’s worked in every revolution in history.

So some of the largest protests in the country’s history count as docile now…? No revolution in history has started with the bloodshed, it always escalates (like it is actively doing in the US) and aside from that blindingly obvious historical truth, it’s really weird how attempting to avoid violence is now somehow a societal failing.

Oh for fucks sake.

“Elon fanboys be like”, I guess…?

I’m not arguing that utilities don’t suck or aren’t a big part of the problem, though. There are issues with Lifepo4 chemistry batteries (though I guess many of the recycling issues are being solved) that preclude them being an ideal choice for home battery use (flammability, supply or waste infrastructure, etc.) but they are one of the more promising options. Sodium Ion still has a long way to come in terms of manufacturability, as far as I understand it? But hopefully in the near future they start demonstrating their suitability via implementation.

Which ways?

MIDs are in fact one of the bigger ones! That said, all the ones I have worked with are promising but are as-yet still unreliable enough that municipal adoption has been mired in safety concerns and the usual nonsense. To be honest that’s been ever since they were first added to the NEC (admittedly most of this initially was based on speculative concerns), because of course. There are still warranted concerns with the implementation of microgrids, including things that are obviously bullshit like a lack of confidence in the reactivity of stations to the potential for the excessive peaking large residential adoption of home batteries might cause, but also much less bullshit things like the complicating risks of having very large lithium-based batteries present in a residential fire.

They are not insurmountable concerns, but they are ones that need answering and are not a small part of why I say that currently, home battery storage solutions just aren’t there yet. Local-grid facilities (what one of your sources calls a Mini-grid) are currently the best solution, which is why so many utilities are installing them. I’ve no doubt that the issues will be worked out, and although it will be some time before the technology matures to where the economies of scale present at the municipal level are no longer a driving consideration, it’ll probably get there.

(edit: fixed some typos)

The question is about why you think solar is good for home but not batteries.

What? I don’t think that. “Which is exactly the same as as solar and that was the whole reason for the question in the first place.” this is my entire point, that home battery systems are not matured to where they beat out local municipal facilities and the economies of scale that come with them, as is true with solar and every other form of power generation right now. Power grids are not built to support this kind of use, for a host of reasons.

When solar is used in the house it doesn’t go down the lines

Yeah, it does. That’s why they’re dangerous, because unless you have something like an interlock to physically separate it from the grid it will unexpectedly energize the lines even if that leg is isolated at the station. This kills so many electricians every year, and there is not a component that makes this idiot proof. The number of pried off interlocks on standby systems that I have seen is fucking terrifying, and automatic interlock switches simply aren’t reliable enough for broad consumer installation.

Hahahaha this is the icing on the cake […] That’s how that’s words spelt.

Dude, nobody cares about minor grammar or spelling errors. I make tons of them myself. That’s not what that’s there to point out.

How so?

That’s everything I’ve been talking about, you even go on to exhaustively quote what I’ve said that answers this question. Did you have a reason for saying this other than being combative? No, seriously, I really care about this subject and it’s clear you do too. And the most hardline thing I’ve said is that home battery walls and solar installs aren’t very good right now, and that local-grid installs are superior (I expand on that below). Surely there’s more constructive ways this could be approached.

I could go on but I think I’ve addressed the major points of miscommunication, if you’re interested I would be genuinely happy to keep talking about this in a slightly less aggressive conversation.

(Edit: sorry, thought I should elaborate on this one tiny point:)

Batteries in the walls are useful in niches

(this is a very self indulgent pun)

Not to be churlish but does gay marriage just not count as progressive now? Or marijuana legalization? Exceptions to the rule possibly, but pretty fucking big exceptions if so.

If you assume what’s being compared is the platonic ideal of both technologies then you’re largely correct, but removing them from the context of the real world (where: high density battery chemistries still wear out quickly, biodiesel is common, the supply chain is a major contributor of greenhouse emissions, the need for power backups is infrequent, and where grid power is still in large part supplied by fossil fuels) isn’t very useful. Local-grid scale battery storage is the best solution we have for direct energy storage, and it’s very much maturing rapidly, but home units are still restricted in the above and countless (because I am too lazy to count them) additional ways. Ignoring those issues doesn’t work; implementation doesn’t particularly care about theory.

Neat, a point by point breakdown. Love those. In no way are they fingernails to the blackboard of internet discussion.

I’ll be a little surprised if he addresses it more than a passing comment - the US conservative population doesn’t actually give a shit about canada (unless they’re told to be mad about it for some specific scapegoaty reason, but they’ll just forget. Like they’ve all forgotten about the lumber issues, or eggs, or how ‘canada is killing the US garment industry’ that one was cute…). At this point he’s got enough other things to distract them with, so why waste his very limited attention span on something he’s declared a solved issue?

O…kay but that doesn’t address anything I actually said.

Mmmmm no, a bit of napkin math here but the RF this thing would throw off would just melt any faraday cage smaller than a midsized town.

Also no, there are not nuclear tests all the time in the midwest.

Because home batteries, while provisionally useful in the same way as a standby generator (though the generator is going to be far more eco friendly than the batteries over their respective lifetimes), is a vastly inferior solution to the implementation of even local grid scale solutions. Also because there is essentially 0 infrastructure designed to handle said batteries, they wear out quite quickly at home scales (unless you’re using uncommon chemistries, but if you’re using iron-nickle batteries you’re not the target audience here) and because Elon popularized them with his “powerwall” bullshit entirely to pump the stock value of Tesla’s battery plant (which is it’s own spectacular saga I encourage you to look up, it’s a real trip).

Batteries in the walls are useful in niches, but the current technology which uses lipo/lion/lifepo4 chemistries is inherently flawed and a route to both dead linemen and massive amounts of E-waste. They could be useful potentially, but as it stands, it’s really bad right now.