Leegh [he/him]

“Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will”

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  • 53 Comments
Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: March 23rd, 2022

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  • You talk of mentioning Mohammad’s child marriage being counter-productive in many contexts, but that is exactly what you are doing. No one brought this comparison up except you, a comparison that makes no sense as it occurred two millennium ago in a vastly different society with vastly different social norms to what is accepted by the vast majority of modern society today. Is Mohammad alive today actively running cover for pedophilia while being the head of a massive theocratic institution with the power to sway hundreds of millions? No. But the Pope is (or was, until yesterday).

    Re: Netanyahu, I’m not sure if that statistic would even be true, but he is not a religious figure at the top of the chain.

    He is, however, a world leader with massive sway in Western politics, and you’d have to be living under a rock to not see how he constantly equivalates his actions and the actions of the Zionist entity with Judaism.
    Just as I’m sure you agree that Netanyahu’s actions should not be associated with Judaism, the Pope’s actions on institutional cover-up of pedophilia should not be associated with Christianity. So why do you think it is anti-Christian to call this out?

    But what I’m trying to draw attention to is basic cultural sensitivity and treating each other like comrades, which is not how parent is - or now I am - being treated.

    So, your idea of treating each other like comrades is ignoring the reactionary ideas and institutional corruption of a present-day theocratic leader and acting like he’s a man of the people? How incredibly un-Marxist of you.

    How about showing some sensitivity for the Catholic children who were abused by the Church that the Pope was running cover for?

    How about showing some sensitivity for all the LGBT+ people (some of which are on this forum) who were discriminated against by the Church?

    It is absolutely childish to say that the material harm that the Church does to people is the same as your feelings being hurt because people are criticizing your geriatric pedo religious leader after he just passed away. It’s the same bullshit conservative Britbong Protestants pulled when Queen Elizabeth II died because it was too “culturally insensitive” to call her out for being a racist imperialist that impoverishes her people.

    When is the best time to say this then? I already know the answer of course, but I hope you get the point I’m trying to make.



  • I do think that attacking the entire Catholic Church instead of attacking just Catholic theocrats is analogous to attacking Christianity instead of just Christian theocrats.

    This is what I was objecting to. I fail to see how attacking the Catholic Church is an affront to every Christian, especially when some comrades on this forum are Christian and share these critiques too.

    When I said “the Catholic Church is not Christianity as a whole” I mean that bashing the Church for the reactionary stuff it does or says is not analogous to bashing Christianity in general. When the Pope gets called out by us for saying something like “gender ideology is the most dangerous thing in society”, that doesn’t mean EVERY Christian holds that view or should be associated with what the Pope says (unless they are in the Church themselves, then they should be held accountable).

    Also, can you define “Christian theocrat” for me? I’m having a hard time seeing how that isn’t any different to the Catholic Church (which is LITERALLY a theocratic institution).

    But I still believe it can continue to exist as the Catholic Church but be prevented from messing with secular politics. I am not sure that was your point, but you seem to think that the Catholic Church is inherently a “political” (secular politics) arm of Christianity.

    No, I do not see the Catholic Church as “secular”, it is by its nature a theocratic organization. The “political” part comes from the fact that it wields power in the state (through the Vatican, but also historically through governments that pledge allegiance to the Church) to enact its theocratic ideas and policies on the masses. To give modern comparisons, it is comparable to the clerics who hold power in the Islamic Republic of Iran, or the British Monarch being the figurehead of the Church of England.

    Do I believe that religious organizations can be prevented from interfering in secular politics? Yes, as long as they don’t gain power. China is a good example of a ML state that has prevented this while still allowing people to congregate in religious orgs by making sure they are all approved and regulated by the Communist Party.



  • While I appreciate your critique, I have to object to one thing: the Catholic Church is not Christianity as a whole. It is a political organization that represents the religion, but it is not omnipotent of the religion.

    And as political organization, it has done a LOT of bad shit in its very, very long history.

    Just as people point out that ISIS, Al-Qaeda, or even Saudi Arabia is not representative of all of Islam, neither is the Catholic Church, the Church of England, or any Christian organization at that.

    It has also historically been used by the bourgeoisie, and the aristocracy before them, to legitimize and maintain their class dictatorship (as you already pointed out, Tsarist Russia is a very example of that but for the Orthodox Church), so it is not out of line to include religious organizations in critiques of Capitalism.

    I believe most folks here are (rightfully) trashing the Church, not every single person who holds Christian beliefs.