Wtf no your 9-5 (or in your case im guessing much longer) isn’t a replacement for a relationship.
If you’re somehow able to do nothing but work and self improvement all day and be satisfied with just that in your life then good for you but don’t assume everyone can just adapt to that mindset.
Humans are not evolved to find intimacy so irrelevant.
No debate there but I don’t think you can extend that truth into suggesting that everyone could just as easily be fulfilled if they just “focus their energy on other aspects of their lives”.
i call that phenomenon “over-generalization”. you observe yourself and assume that everybody feels the same way, which, empirically, is simply not the case.
The idea that intimacy is required to live a fulfilling life is the lie. There are famous examples of people who were life long virgins. A few of them were in unconsummated marriages.
My assumption would be many of the people you’re referencing are/were either on the aro/ace spectrum or simply closeted homosexuals.
Most people desire intimacy, and will experience some amount of discomfort/distress from a prolonged lack of intimacy. See also “touch-starved.” It is also perfectly normal for individuals to find themselves on the aromantic/asexual spectrum, where they may either not need intimacy or may even find displeasure/discomfort/distress when engaging in intimacy for another’s sake. These are things that are important to keep in mind when discussing other’s needs and desires or lack thereof
This is a green text so I’m gonna suspend as much reality as I can.
This is not gonna go over well but here we go.
If you want to talk to women or whatever romantic/sexual partner you’d prefer, why the fuck are we paying women to approach them in a non-romantic/sexual professional setting and then being upset?
Either open up to people, lower your standards, or increase your own self-worth to approach whatever arbitrary standards you’ve made for you.
Talking to people in a romance/sex setting isn’t a fucking myth, it’s a very everyday part of life that every single person thinks about. Approach it like that, don’t be an asshole, and above all go out and have fun.
There is someone for you, and even if you don’t think so, there’s someone exactly like you willing to take the same risk.
If you’ve read this, and you’re upset, it’s on you. Go outside and fucking try.
I’d approached this very subject in therapy. My problem was being worried about my standards, because I’ve been looking for something so very specific in a partner, that even my therapist was surprised that I managed to find people who fit the bill. But my therapist highlighted that I did, indeed, manage to have several partners who matched my intent during the almost two decades since I’ve started doing this whole Relationship™ deal, and I’m a weird fucker looking for likewise weird fuckers!
@Whostosay is 100% correct. There are over 8 billion (edit: to highlight billion - BILLION! Can you even picture that amount?! I sure as hell can’t, can barely conceptualise millions!) individuals on this planet at the moment, and humanity isn’t THAT creative for there to be no common ground between us. It’s statistically improbable for there to not be at least someone who matches you. Sure, it may take a long while to find such people if your standards are very specific (I usually spend several years solo between partners due to this, plus I don’t do hook-ups, one-night-stands or fwb stuff because they do nothing for me), but there ARE people out there who fit the bill.
Take a chance! Go out into the world and shoot your shot! Post a “seeking partner” post online, be honest and specific, go on dating apps with the specific intent of looking for who YOU want and stop focusing on a high-score! Like, what the hell do you have to lose, y’know? Just be 100% honest about it, both with yourself and potential interests! Are you socially awkward and anxious? Then TELL THEM! Worst case scenario, they’ll react like a sociopathic douchebag with zero empathy, in which case they will have dodged that bullet for you! But the best case scenario is that they’ll be able to empathise and will see that you are a human being with a heart, with thoughts and feelings, and they’ll not only appreciate your honesty, but they may even find your awkwardness comforting and endearing (the only people who have zero doubts about anything are those who are lying to themselves and to everyone around them).
And in the meantime, have fun! Pick up hobbies, read random books, spend hours topic-jumping on the internet, develop weird fixations, go for long walks, whatever! Keep busy and live your life!
P.S.: and before anyone thinks I’m just a confident person, I have news for you: I even second-guess the way I wipe my ass. But I just… get over it! I don’t know how else to put this, accept your doubts, accept that they’re there, then do it anyway! Maybe you’ll fuck up, but then you’ll have earnt a good life lesson if you look at it with honesty!
I want to give an alternative perspective that will hopefully help.
A lot of people make arbitrary lists of requirements, like they need these physical features, these hobbies, etc. Then when they’re getting to know people, they go one by one down that checklist to see if they measure up like they’re shopping for furniture instead of making a friend. Then they get frustrated that “nobody is interested in a relationship” when the fact is they’re just not interested in being treated like a product at a store.
My advice is to go out with the intent to make friends. It could turn out that you find a new hobby you really enjoy with one friend that just doesn’t hit the same with anyone else or by yourself. Maybe that’s DnD, quilting, or skating. Try new things with new people and maybe you’ll find companionship with someone you didn’t expect.
As you begin a new relationship, make sure you align on whatever’s most important to you, but be flexible with the rest, and be comfortable with the other person not changing in the ways you expect or want. Here are some things I think it’s goods to be picky about:
long term plans and goals - what does ideal retirement look like? Are kids a possibility or necessity?
religious/political values - you don’t need to agree, but you do need to be okay with any disagreement
money - will you combine finances or keep things separate? What expectations do you have for discussing spending?
I think pretty much everything else becomes less important once you meet the right person.
If there’s one thing I’ve learnt in 34 years of existing on this planet, it’s that feelings can’t be controlled - we can only control our actions, but good luck swimming against the current of what the heart desires. If someone wants to make friends, then that will be the intent. If someone wants a relationship, making friends will never suffice. And it’s ok to go out there with the intent of finding a partner specifically! In my opinion and experience, it really is counterproductive to go completely against what one knows one wants. I mean… what’s even the point, then?
I do agree with you in that one should know what one wants out of a relationship, the important things. As you’ve said, reproductive trajectory, goals, dreams, ideals, beliefs, lifestyle, these are all vital aspects. But it’s also ok if someone has more aspects on that list, my “vital” may look vastly different from anyone else’s “vital.” For instance, I delve into the abstracts as well. I need someone creative in my life, I need someone who understands hardships and doesn’t treat them as “just smile more, bro, you’ll get over it.” I need someone who understands their feelings, who works with and around them instead of trying to deny or control them. And I need someone who’s into weird shit, into grim and grotesque shit, because those are a large part of my life, of who I am.
Point is, it’s ok to want a relationship and not friendship! It’s ok to want specifics! As long as one goes out there with openness and honesty, and treats everyone with the respect all life deserves, without wanting or expecting someone to change for them, then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with however one chooses to go about things. All methods require an amount of compromise, one just has to decide what kind of compromise one is willing to make!
But that’s just it, openness, honesty and respect are VITAL. Be open to knowing a person on their own terms, just as you would like to be known. Be honest, always, about what you want, how you feel (or don’t feel!), and respect everyone’s right to define who they want to be without imposing who you’d want them to be - you either accept them as they are and into your life, or you ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE and move on. And then, back to respect - respect their decision around you, as well.
I honestly don’t know you personally, but my point is that maybe you don’t need all of that in one person. Maybe you just need someone who will support you in things you find value in and encourage you to pursue your passions, but you’ll actually pursue them with different groups of people.
And that’s the point of going out and making friendship a priority. Friends can meet a lot of needs and reduce what you need from a romantic partner. If you can separate what roles a romantic partner must satisfy from what can be satisfied by friend groups, your pool of potential partners increases substantially.
For example, I’m really nerdy and into a lot of weird technical stuff. My SO is quite different and doesn’t know what I’m talking about half the time, and is really into art and related things. We do things together where we overlap, and the rest is with other friend groups.
I think people get hung up looking for the perfect fit instead of a good fit.
Hey, sorry for the late reply, Life™ happened and I kept missing the notification.
Personally, through trial and error, I’ve come to the conclusion that I do, indeed, need those aspects in a relationship, but the degrees in which they’re present aren’t as relevant! Gonna go into TMI, probably, but as a concrete example, I won’t say “no” if someone isn’t actively into the Grotesque, but they liked something of Giger’s, or Beksiński’s when I showed them! There’s at least the potential for exploration there, which is a lot of fun in and of itself!
Otherwise, I think that each and every individual has their own very specific set of needs and acceptable compromises, which is why I think we’re both correct! In that, literally, any which way someone goes about something is ok, as long as their potential interest gets full respect, honesty and openness at the end of the day. And even regardless of result, but that’s besides the point.
As far as being open to friendship while pursuing romantic relationships, that doesn’t work for me personally, because I look for very different things when looking for partners compared to when I’m allowing friendships to happen - different dynamics, different investments, different intentions, and generally looking for people who, like me, are actively seeking romantic stuff, means it usually makes friendships mutually untenable afterwards. If there’s the possibility and a friendship develops naturally and without uncomfortable difficulties, of course I won’t say “no” to it, though!
Wtf no your 9-5 (or in your case im guessing much longer) isn’t a replacement for a relationship.
If you’re somehow able to do nothing but work and self improvement all day and be satisfied with just that in your life then good for you but don’t assume everyone can just adapt to that mindset.
Humans are not evolved to find intimacy so irrelevant.
Some people find sex less important than others and prefer to focus their energy on other aspects of their lives.
No debate there but I don’t think you can extend that truth into suggesting that everyone could just as easily be fulfilled if they just “focus their energy on other aspects of their lives”.
Yeah, that’s a classic logical fallacy. What’s true for one isn’t likely true for most, and what’s true for most isn’t necessarily true for one.
i call that phenomenon “over-generalization”. you observe yourself and assume that everybody feels the same way, which, empirically, is simply not the case.
The idea that intimacy is required to live a fulfilling life is the lie. There are famous examples of people who were life long virgins. A few of them were in unconsummated marriages.
My assumption would be many of the people you’re referencing are/were either on the aro/ace spectrum or simply closeted homosexuals.
Most people desire intimacy, and will experience some amount of discomfort/distress from a prolonged lack of intimacy. See also “touch-starved.” It is also perfectly normal for individuals to find themselves on the aromantic/asexual spectrum, where they may either not need intimacy or may even find displeasure/discomfort/distress when engaging in intimacy for another’s sake. These are things that are important to keep in mind when discussing other’s needs and desires or lack thereof
This is a green text so I’m gonna suspend as much reality as I can.
This is not gonna go over well but here we go.
If you want to talk to women or whatever romantic/sexual partner you’d prefer, why the fuck are we paying women to approach them in a non-romantic/sexual professional setting and then being upset?
Either open up to people, lower your standards, or increase your own self-worth to approach whatever arbitrary standards you’ve made for you.
Talking to people in a romance/sex setting isn’t a fucking myth, it’s a very everyday part of life that every single person thinks about. Approach it like that, don’t be an asshole, and above all go out and have fun.
There is someone for you, and even if you don’t think so, there’s someone exactly like you willing to take the same risk.
If you’ve read this, and you’re upset, it’s on you. Go outside and fucking try.
I’d approached this very subject in therapy. My problem was being worried about my standards, because I’ve been looking for something so very specific in a partner, that even my therapist was surprised that I managed to find people who fit the bill. But my therapist highlighted that I did, indeed, manage to have several partners who matched my intent during the almost two decades since I’ve started doing this whole Relationship™ deal, and I’m a weird fucker looking for likewise weird fuckers!
@Whostosay is 100% correct. There are over 8 billion (edit: to highlight billion - BILLION! Can you even picture that amount?! I sure as hell can’t, can barely conceptualise millions!) individuals on this planet at the moment, and humanity isn’t THAT creative for there to be no common ground between us. It’s statistically improbable for there to not be at least someone who matches you. Sure, it may take a long while to find such people if your standards are very specific (I usually spend several years solo between partners due to this, plus I don’t do hook-ups, one-night-stands or fwb stuff because they do nothing for me), but there ARE people out there who fit the bill.
Take a chance! Go out into the world and shoot your shot! Post a “seeking partner” post online, be honest and specific, go on dating apps with the specific intent of looking for who YOU want and stop focusing on a high-score! Like, what the hell do you have to lose, y’know? Just be 100% honest about it, both with yourself and potential interests! Are you socially awkward and anxious? Then TELL THEM! Worst case scenario, they’ll react like a sociopathic douchebag with zero empathy, in which case they will have dodged that bullet for you! But the best case scenario is that they’ll be able to empathise and will see that you are a human being with a heart, with thoughts and feelings, and they’ll not only appreciate your honesty, but they may even find your awkwardness comforting and endearing (the only people who have zero doubts about anything are those who are lying to themselves and to everyone around them).
And in the meantime, have fun! Pick up hobbies, read random books, spend hours topic-jumping on the internet, develop weird fixations, go for long walks, whatever! Keep busy and live your life!
P.S.: and before anyone thinks I’m just a confident person, I have news for you: I even second-guess the way I wipe my ass. But I just… get over it! I don’t know how else to put this, accept your doubts, accept that they’re there, then do it anyway! Maybe you’ll fuck up, but then you’ll have earnt a good life lesson if you look at it with honesty!
I want to give an alternative perspective that will hopefully help.
A lot of people make arbitrary lists of requirements, like they need these physical features, these hobbies, etc. Then when they’re getting to know people, they go one by one down that checklist to see if they measure up like they’re shopping for furniture instead of making a friend. Then they get frustrated that “nobody is interested in a relationship” when the fact is they’re just not interested in being treated like a product at a store.
My advice is to go out with the intent to make friends. It could turn out that you find a new hobby you really enjoy with one friend that just doesn’t hit the same with anyone else or by yourself. Maybe that’s DnD, quilting, or skating. Try new things with new people and maybe you’ll find companionship with someone you didn’t expect.
As you begin a new relationship, make sure you align on whatever’s most important to you, but be flexible with the rest, and be comfortable with the other person not changing in the ways you expect or want. Here are some things I think it’s goods to be picky about:
I think pretty much everything else becomes less important once you meet the right person.
If there’s one thing I’ve learnt in 34 years of existing on this planet, it’s that feelings can’t be controlled - we can only control our actions, but good luck swimming against the current of what the heart desires. If someone wants to make friends, then that will be the intent. If someone wants a relationship, making friends will never suffice. And it’s ok to go out there with the intent of finding a partner specifically! In my opinion and experience, it really is counterproductive to go completely against what one knows one wants. I mean… what’s even the point, then?
I do agree with you in that one should know what one wants out of a relationship, the important things. As you’ve said, reproductive trajectory, goals, dreams, ideals, beliefs, lifestyle, these are all vital aspects. But it’s also ok if someone has more aspects on that list, my “vital” may look vastly different from anyone else’s “vital.” For instance, I delve into the abstracts as well. I need someone creative in my life, I need someone who understands hardships and doesn’t treat them as “just smile more, bro, you’ll get over it.” I need someone who understands their feelings, who works with and around them instead of trying to deny or control them. And I need someone who’s into weird shit, into grim and grotesque shit, because those are a large part of my life, of who I am.
Point is, it’s ok to want a relationship and not friendship! It’s ok to want specifics! As long as one goes out there with openness and honesty, and treats everyone with the respect all life deserves, without wanting or expecting someone to change for them, then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with however one chooses to go about things. All methods require an amount of compromise, one just has to decide what kind of compromise one is willing to make!
But that’s just it, openness, honesty and respect are VITAL. Be open to knowing a person on their own terms, just as you would like to be known. Be honest, always, about what you want, how you feel (or don’t feel!), and respect everyone’s right to define who they want to be without imposing who you’d want them to be - you either accept them as they are and into your life, or you ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE and move on. And then, back to respect - respect their decision around you, as well.
I honestly don’t know you personally, but my point is that maybe you don’t need all of that in one person. Maybe you just need someone who will support you in things you find value in and encourage you to pursue your passions, but you’ll actually pursue them with different groups of people.
And that’s the point of going out and making friendship a priority. Friends can meet a lot of needs and reduce what you need from a romantic partner. If you can separate what roles a romantic partner must satisfy from what can be satisfied by friend groups, your pool of potential partners increases substantially.
For example, I’m really nerdy and into a lot of weird technical stuff. My SO is quite different and doesn’t know what I’m talking about half the time, and is really into art and related things. We do things together where we overlap, and the rest is with other friend groups.
I think people get hung up looking for the perfect fit instead of a good fit.
Exactly!
Hey, sorry for the late reply, Life™ happened and I kept missing the notification.
Personally, through trial and error, I’ve come to the conclusion that I do, indeed, need those aspects in a relationship, but the degrees in which they’re present aren’t as relevant! Gonna go into TMI, probably, but as a concrete example, I won’t say “no” if someone isn’t actively into the Grotesque, but they liked something of Giger’s, or Beksiński’s when I showed them! There’s at least the potential for exploration there, which is a lot of fun in and of itself!
Otherwise, I think that each and every individual has their own very specific set of needs and acceptable compromises, which is why I think we’re both correct! In that, literally, any which way someone goes about something is ok, as long as their potential interest gets full respect, honesty and openness at the end of the day. And even regardless of result, but that’s besides the point.
As far as being open to friendship while pursuing romantic relationships, that doesn’t work for me personally, because I look for very different things when looking for partners compared to when I’m allowing friendships to happen - different dynamics, different investments, different intentions, and generally looking for people who, like me, are actively seeking romantic stuff, means it usually makes friendships mutually untenable afterwards. If there’s the possibility and a friendship develops naturally and without uncomfortable difficulties, of course I won’t say “no” to it, though!