We signed treaties with a government that was overthrown, and “signing a treaty” does not make a nation an ally. You seem to be the one confused about what an ally is. There was no formal alliance, just informal support, the same kind given to the people who you claim don’t count because they were never allies.
And the US funding and training the other groups was “a fairly significant sign that they were allies,” but you excluded them based on them not technically/formally being allies. If you wanna use that standard, then “fairly significant signs” are irrelevant, the question is whether they have signed a formal military alliance, as in, NATO. As Ukraine is not in NATO, they aren’t allied. You don’t have to read into the signs, it’s an objective fact.
“Security guarantees” aren’t alliances. Or if they are, then we’re using the term informally, and it’s therefore valid to talk about it in the context of funding and training people.
Live by the technicality, die by the technicality. You don’t get to have it both ways.
It also includes the methods the US promoted the mujahedin as freedom fighters to the US before ultimately turning on them, which is what the meme is about.
The CIA using the ISI to transport some weapons and train soldiers isn’t “this ISI did everything therefore the Mujahedin weren’t supported by the US”, it’s “the ISI were a tool of the CIA”, the operation was run out of Washington. It had US media providing glowing coverage of the Mujahedin as they committed war crimes.
I don’t know why you are being so obtuse. Aparantly, you can only be called an ally of america if you are being paraded around Washington or something.
Americans providing weapons and training doesn’t count, because the structure for providing this isn’t to your standards.
The Mujaheddin did need help, they needed weapons, bombs, intelligence, diplomatic support, booby traps specifically procured by the CIA. The US provided it.
And then back home, they used their contacts in the media to make sure everyone knew that the Mujaheddin were the good guys worthy of America’s support, even if they were not officially receiving it. Americans, Mujaheddin, and Soviets all understood the US supported the Mujaheddin, even if there was a layer of plausible deniability. It’s why the Soviets asked the US to stop the attacks on Soviet soldiers during the pullout and not Pakistan.
The american people were told to see the Mujaheddin as their ally, and the Mujaheddin understood it was the US supporting them.
Between 2003 and 2011, the CIA even captured and handed over enemies from all over the world, along with providing intelligence about dissidents within Libya.
As far as OBL goes, the US armed and trained his faction against the soviets during the soviet-afghan war.
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Ukraine was never an ally of the US either, by that metric.
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We signed treaties with a government that was overthrown, and “signing a treaty” does not make a nation an ally. You seem to be the one confused about what an ally is. There was no formal alliance, just informal support, the same kind given to the people who you claim don’t count because they were never allies.
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And the US funding and training the other groups was “a fairly significant sign that they were allies,” but you excluded them based on them not technically/formally being allies. If you wanna use that standard, then “fairly significant signs” are irrelevant, the question is whether they have signed a formal military alliance, as in, NATO. As Ukraine is not in NATO, they aren’t allied. You don’t have to read into the signs, it’s an objective fact.
“Security guarantees” aren’t alliances. Or if they are, then we’re using the term informally, and it’s therefore valid to talk about it in the context of funding and training people.
Live by the technicality, die by the technicality. You don’t get to have it both ways.
That’s not how Operation Cyclone worked. You can just read the wikipedia article, there’s several books on the subject, but honestly Blowback Season 4 is pretty good coverage. Episode 3 specifically deals with who at the CIA interfaced with the afghans and how.
It also includes the methods the US promoted the mujahedin as freedom fighters to the US before ultimately turning on them, which is what the meme is about.
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The CIA using the ISI to transport some weapons and train soldiers isn’t “this ISI did everything therefore the Mujahedin weren’t supported by the US”, it’s “the ISI were a tool of the CIA”, the operation was run out of Washington. It had US media providing glowing coverage of the Mujahedin as they committed war crimes.
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I don’t know why you are being so obtuse. Aparantly, you can only be called an ally of america if you are being paraded around Washington or something.
Americans providing weapons and training doesn’t count, because the structure for providing this isn’t to your standards.
They were paraded around Washington. Here’s the Mujahedin meeting with Reagan in the oval office for a photo op.
Lol even funnier
The Mujaheddin did need help, they needed weapons, bombs, intelligence, diplomatic support, booby traps specifically procured by the CIA. The US provided it.
And then back home, they used their contacts in the media to make sure everyone knew that the Mujaheddin were the good guys worthy of America’s support, even if they were not officially receiving it. Americans, Mujaheddin, and Soviets all understood the US supported the Mujaheddin, even if there was a layer of plausible deniability. It’s why the Soviets asked the US to stop the attacks on Soviet soldiers during the pullout and not Pakistan.
The american people were told to see the Mujaheddin as their ally, and the Mujaheddin understood it was the US supporting them.
You ever heard of operation cyclone before?
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